View Poll Results: What makes Unity better than Blender Game Engine?

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  • Unity has an iPhone and web game player

    92 58.60%
  • Unity GUI is better for creating levels

    34 21.66%
  • Unity game engine is faster and has better graphics features

    96 61.15%
  • Unity scripting language(s) are better

    21 13.38%
  • Other (please reply details)

    18 11.46%
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  1. #41
    Member cyborg_ar's Avatar
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    GameKit would be great if it were just like panda3d in terms of features and design, but with a decent physics engine (both the builtin and ODE engine suck balls compared to what Bullet can do in the BGE), some sort of documentation (panda has very poor function-level documentation, area in which the bge shines), and sane integration with blender.

    Maybe GameKit could be distributed along with blender, though it would build a separate binary under the BSD license terms, would let you start the game with P (though not in the current 3d view, but a new window) i don't really see why not that wouldn't be feasible, having a new window pop up when running the game is not really annoying and could prove useful for seeing how the game would look to the end user.

    The only "redundant" part in the GameKit would be the blender reader library, since the integration with blender would allow to use RNA for converting the data to a "lossy" middle format gamekit could later parse faster (and less dependently of BF's format changes) than .blend and could provide asset protection, that is something a lot of people like of unity.
    Last edited by cyborg_ar; 01-Nov-09 at 00:33.
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  2. #42
    Member erwin's Avatar
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    start the game with P (though not in the current 3d view, but a new window) i don't really see why not that wouldn't be feasible,
    Exactly, that is the plan: when pressing 'P' is saves the .blend and executes GameKit. That process should be faster than python exporters.

    Originally Posted by Social View Post
    Unless you copied the BGE source, you would need to have a *converter*, that would take the blender logic data (bricks + scripts), and convert it into data that the "gamekit engine" could actually execute.
    No converter is needed, GameKit reads .blend files directly. We just need to complete the GameKit logic manager and brick extraction. A starting point has been made to extract logic bricks, with a basic logic manager to execute those bricks. Expect the first logic bricks to work very soon. See http://code.google.com/p/gamekit/sou...t/main.cpp#774

    Once some logic bricks work, I likely play around with more full python control (not just within the logic bricks) and perhaps LUA.

    .blend and could provide asset protection, that is something a lot of people like of unity.
    Reading .blend files can be through readblend can be further optimized. Adding a second optimized format and asset protection would be important indeed.

    GameKit is fairly early stages indeed, but it can already display textured meshes and rigid body simulation from a .blend on Windows, Linux, Mac (using Irrlicht graphics) and iPhone (using Oolong Engine). I might play around with Ogre, as comparison with Irrlicht.

    Anyway, the discussion is drifting away from Unity and BGE :-)
    Thanks,
    Erwin
    Last edited by erwin; 01-Nov-09 at 00:51.



  3. #43
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    No thank you, that sounds absolutely awesome. You are writing bge history Erwin!



  4. #44
    Member Social's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by erwin View Post
    No converter is needed, GameKit reads .blend files directly.
    I meant manager.

    Yea, I was just making a point that the .blend doesn't store the functionality provided by the BGE, and that this is something that the GameKit will have to provide for all the bricks/scripts.

    Is that right?
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  5. #45
    Unity is game engine special built to make games. Blender however is not built to make games. Unity wins in the fact that it has a lot of real-time rendering techniques that would have to be scripted into Blender.



  6. #46
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    haven't used unity yet..Have read over the features tho.. but some features that always bring me back to the BGE:

    When I look at other game engines.. I always go straight to the physics specs to see what they can do.. unity does sound like it has most physics features... and a good graphics pipeline that is rare for indy and small scale game engines.

    I really enjoy using the bullet physics engine..wish it had some more bullet features implemented like getting the collision co-ordinates.. and easier ways to setup joints and springs that can snap based on velocity etc using a gui... as well as ways of making fracture objects that don't involve jumping through hoops.

    The physics re-instance of the physics mesh is very useful.. plus I like the ability to use the modifiers and shape keys in the game engine.. being able to use animated modifiers would also be a stand out feature. I found the collision bounds and the soft bodies really fun to use (tho would like it to work with the collision detection logic bricks..)

    not sure if other free game engines can do the same collision detection when it comes to objects with holes in them.. yet to see examples of that.. I find bullet really powerful.

    The state machine is also very awesome to use.

    BGE down side is lack of python control.. could see much more python to control everything- apparantly this is easy to fix (according to Campbell but he's super busy atm with Durian I guess). Also Unity has better shadows and sounds like better shaders etc. Tho I really like using blender to setup and demo the GLSL shader... could have more features here.. or better control.. like being able to get the outputted GLSL shader into a text file.

    hmmm I could go on.. BGE has a lot of attractive features but it's need to be a bit more co-hesive..GUI's etc.. sound.. python, more physics, better asset management etc, it hard to realisticly compare it to Unity who have a team of guys working on it.

    I'm very excited by the Gamekit idea.. even tho all these other game engines have all these features.. I still end up coming back to BGE.



  7. #47
    I don't know how to program, I'm a sub-person!
    And the game engine of Blender is no good, a sub-engine!
    Sub-person and sub-engines go well together!
    Why don't you take your Python and C++ things and go talk to Gamasutra and the likes?
    And give me back the red and green UV Editor lines!



  8. #48
    i read all this "unity kills BGE" and yeah, it's part true, BUT BGE is really cool in it's own respect, because it goes hand in hand with level design.
    Also, who agrees that one of the main reasons that unity is now free is blender? with all this gamekit thing going on, i believe they are starting to be afraid. just my 1 cent.
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  9. #49
    Member cray's Avatar
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    Also, who agrees that one of the main reasons that unity is now free is blender? with all this gamekit thing going on, i believe they are starting to be afraid. just my 1 cent.
    I don't think so.

    1. Unity Free means an augmentation of the user base/more feedbacks/bigger popularity/better quality (in a dream world).
    2. Some of those users will easily switch to the Pro version if they become used to the free version and understand the potential of the Pro one.
    3. It's a smart move : lot of the Free version users that will move to "Pro" will not even compare the Pro version (1499$) with other engines on the market like Torque 3d (1000$).
    4. It will spread the installation of the Unity web plugin (remember flash?) : that means a biggest market, bigger interest from business companies, that will eventually buy the Pro license or more.
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  10. #50
    Did anyone notice the Wii publishing capabilitys besides the iPhone?

    Looks impresive, in the end this is what we need to do in order to improve BGE, use other game engines. See what we like, adopt the good ideas discard the bad or useless ones. And in the long run we'll have the most complete game engine and with the gamekit, freedom to use that power.



  11. #51
    Moderator blendenzo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cray View Post
    4. It will spread the installation of the Unity web plugin (remember flash?)
    While you are very likely correct, this saddens me.

    Blender could have been the defacto standard for 3D on the web if only the plugin had received some TLC a few years ago. The way things are looking, Unity will very likely become what Blender could have been in that regard.

    (Just what the world needs... another closed source web "standard" which cannot be ported to new browsers, platforms, or system architectures without users endlessly begging the developers to support their particular system. Remember flash?)
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  12. #52
    Member cray's Avatar
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    blendenzo
    Exactly. I think "Remember Flash?" summed it all up very well. With all aspects.
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  13. #53
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    I think Blender didn't have a chance to become the standard in web-based 3D browser gaming because for one thing.

    2.25 - 2.33 or so - BGE wasn't even in Blender
    2.33 - 2.40 - BGE collected dust
    2.40 - BGE got the Bullet physics library, then collected dust in its buggy, broken state till 2.46.

    The only reason we can make decent games in the BGE today is because Ben2610 started fixing and developing this dusty engine which attracted other developers, Erwin coming back to update the Bullet Library, and Blengine getting the Blender Institute to develop the BGE for Apricot.

    The very fact there's developer interest in the BGE is a step up from how it used to be.

    Exactly, that is the plan: when pressing 'P' is saves the .blend and executes GameKit. That process should be faster than python exporters.
    What if we don't neccesarily want the .blend saved and written over right then, especially if we're testing with experimental user-made features that may break our current logic, wouldn't it make more sense to save the .blend to a special copy then, but saving the .blend manually still writes over the origional file?

    And I assume this will mean you will spend more time adding features (like in logic and physics) to the BGE, providing GameKit will also support all new features being developed?
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  14. #54
    Member cyborg_ar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cyborg Dragon View Post
    What if we don't neccesarily want the .blend saved and written over right then, especially if we're testing with experimental user-made features that may break our current logic, wouldn't it make more sense to save the .blend to a special copy then, but saving the .blend manually still writes over the origional file?
    That's a non issue, i guess erwin's plan is indeed to save a temporal .blend file like $TEMP/gamekit.blend and then run gamekit $TEMP/gamekit.blend, and that way could be even easier to code than trying to use the original file.
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  15. #55
    To bring BGE graphically up-to-date with Unity I think its good to consider integrating OGRE into BGE 2.5.

    I know I've opened up this issue before and closed it. But its something that I am currently experimenting with *again* now that I have more knowledge with the Blender source.

    Erwin:

    As for Unity vs BGE

    one problem with BGE is that the logic bricks can get complex with big projects. This is being addressed here:

    http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/De...ine/NodalLogic


    I think the comparisons are between the interfaces of the two. BGE uses Blenders interface and that's a good thing. Maybe what we're asking here is how can Blenders interface be improved to be more user friendly, and again the above link is one thing being done to make logic bricks more accessible...

    Blender 2.5 as a whole also addresses these issues of interface and accessibility for incoming Maya / MAX / XSI users.



  16. #56
    Member erwin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sinan View Post
    To bring BGE graphically up-to-date with Unity I think its good to consider integrating OGRE into BGE 2.5.
    You still have the problem of the BGE GPL license. Game engine technology works better under a BSD/MIT/Zlib style license. That is why I started the GameKit project, it uses Irrlicht (and optionally Ogre in the future) for graphics, and Oolong Engine for iPhone.
    Would be nice if Ben's new logic development would consider creating a run-time under a BSD/MIT/Zlib style license, so we can combine efforts.

    Thanks,
    Erwin



  17. #57
    You still have the problem of the BGE GPL license. Game engine technology works better under a BSD/MIT/Zlib style license.
    Yes.


    My company: Sinsoft is an indie game company focusing on PC development. I think we should note that for PC development the BGE and GPL license work just fine for commercial games.

    Not everyone is going to download the game and start modding, etc.



  18. #58
    Comparing Unity and BGE on a feature to feature basis is probably not the best approach to understanding why Unity is so good.

    To me, it feels like Unity was designed by game designers for game designers - it seems like something designed by people who have made games and worked through the problems that designers deal with everyday (level builders, system designers and etc.) Almost everything I've been frustrated with over the last decade has been addressed. It's pleasant to use and does the job very well. If I need the tool extended to support new features - no problem. If I need to prototype something for the engineers, no problem. If I need to make my own geometry, no problem (I just import from basically whatever I want). Need to edit textures or geometry in real time? Again, no problem. So far, everything has been easy to do.

    Much of this (maybe all of it) is probably true for BGE, but it doesn't matter. In three years of pushing, I've only gotten 1 other designer to even give it a try and he hated the UI so much he stopped using Blender after 1 day. The tool that really took off for game designers was SketchUp, which has an awesomely simple way of making geometry. When coupled with a game engine exporter, it's very, very powerful. At my last studio, we had every game designer (7 designers) cranking out sophisticated geometry from SketchUp (which was later replaced with the pretty stuff from the art department) and iterating levels in game very quickly.

    I think part of the missing information here is that studios are usually made up of teams of people. The art department has very different needs from the design department. While Blender is awesome and doing a great job of supporting art needs, it's just totally not hitting the game designer needs. This may be just about packaging, documenation and workflow rather than features, but it's still crippling BGE from being adopted much more wider (especially for "hobby projects" made on the side by professionals.) In some ways, using BGE to make a game is like expecting a game designer to learn 3D Max in order to script a level - it doesn't make sense in studio environment and not many people have skills so broad that they can do everything themselves. Unity doesn't expect anything from me except that I be a game designer.

    *Edit - I forgot to mention that I use Unity as part of a team (Lead Designer), so my viewpoint is from that, rather than trying to do everything solo. This is a very important point in a production environment.
    Last edited by nxain; 01-Nov-09 at 15:24. Reason: added note



  19. #59
    Originally Posted by Teo_GreenGage View Post
    i read all this "unity kills BGE" and yeah, it's part true, BUT BGE is really cool in it's own respect, because it goes hand in hand with level design.
    Also, who agrees that one of the main reasons that unity is now free is blender? with all this gamekit thing going on, i believe they are starting to be afraid. just my 1 cent.
    Afraid? That's funny. They went free to become the Flash of 3D and to become institutionalized as the 3D engine to use. Getting 5 Millions dollars of investment didn't hurt. Blender being free helps them quite a bit as it means little two man teams with no money can make decent projects using Unity + Blender.



  20. #60
    its good to consider integrating OGRE into BGE 2.5.
    Actually folks never mind.


    It will be a duplication of effort since OGRE is planned to be integrated into GameKit. So I won't be working on this.



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