Animators in Blender : what you are missing?

[3dSaM]

Hi,
I’m a new member! Happy to be here:D
A little frenchy with a very bad and ridiculous english ! sorry about this
I use Blender since one year and a half, I like it very much, the soft is really good…but no need to say this here
I’m particularly interested by rigging and character animation.

For me Blender has everything we need for a professional work, however, I think it could be even better :

• The NLA Editor could be improved : When we have several tracks, it should be flattened properly, but this is not the case ; “Bake Action” is not reliable, it generates many more keys and doesn’t retain the original tracks.
• It’s easy to animate a walk cycle loop on a straight path. It’s much more complicated on a curved trajectory or on a rough land. A real mobility management of character on a trajectory from a single reference walk cycle (or run cycle etc…) would be a great tool!!

For character rigging, a tool like rigify is really great but it could be improved :

• Why not an autosnap for the IK/FK switch ? Alignment by hand is a very tedious process…
• Otherwise it would be interesting to animate the relationship between bones inside the rig. For example the hand becomes child of the pelvis, or the knees become the children of the world etc…I know it’s possible with constraint but default it would be better right?

What you think about all that and what your other ideas?
I would like some feedback from animators (working with Blender or other software…)
I insist : I looove blender! but I think it could become a better and terrific character animation tool !!
Isn’t it ?
(And sorry if my topic is a doubloon…:o) ***SaM vimeo

[clockmender]

For rough terrain or curve walk/run cycles or even vehicles moving over terrain, I use a Follow Path constraint with a Driver for the root bone of the armature, that takes care of the body’s trajectory, then use IK trains for the feet and just place the foot on the terrain where it should land and let the IK take care of the rest.

Just mes deux centimes worth (thats good Franglais). I have resisted ze temptation to speak in a ridiculous French accent, like Eric Cantona!

I wil leaves others to comment on your other points.

Cordialement, Clock.

[revolt_randy]

Salut! & Welcome to BA!!!

It’s easy to animate a walk cycle loop on a straight path. It’s much more complicated on a curved trajectory or on a rough land. A real mobility management of character on a trajectory from a single reference walk cycle (or run cycle etc…) would be a great tool!!

Blender used to have a tool like you are speaking of. When blender went from 2.49 to 2.5, there was a massive re-write of blender’s code. That feature, called a ‘stride bone’, didn’t make it back into blender, it was dropped. Saw this video a couple of weeks ago, it uses a simple method to make the characters feet match uneven ground. I don’t think it will work on a curve… http://www.cgmasters.net/free-tutorials/offset-an-animation-cycle-in-blender/

Why not an autosnap for the IK/FK switch ? Alignment by hand is a very tedious process…

The generated rigify rig has FK/IK snapping, when the rig is in pose mode with an arm/leg bone selected, the controls can be found in the transforms panel (n-key). It should be close to the IK/FK switch, in the same sub-panel.

Otherwise it would be interesting to animate the relationship between bones inside the rig. For example the hand becomes child of the pelvis, or the knees become the children of the world etc…I know it’s possible with constraint but default it would be better right?

For rigify to do this, it would use constraints, but how would it know how to set up those constraints?

“Hand becomes a child of the pelvis”, yes that one should probably be added. And feet child of pelvis should probably be added, But other than that, anything else you might want to make a child of, you have to do by setting the constraint yourself. Animating a character picking up a ball, messing with key frames, constraints, and getting it all to work correctly can be a pain. The first time you do it. Then it becomes easier. Yes, someone should write a tool to automate this in blender.

Good luck et adieu,
Randy

[3dSaM]

@clockmender

For rough terrain or curve walk/run cycles or even vehicles moving over terrain, I use a Follow Path constraint with a Driver for the root bone of the armature, that takes care of the body’s trajectory, then use IK trains for the feet and just place the foot on the terrain where it should land and let the IK take care of the rest.
.

Thanks alot for your comments (and humour ;))
Indeed, I use that too, but it’s not a good solution for me, I think that it could be even better if we use only ONE cycle, always the same in loop, you see what I mean ?

***SaM vimeo

[3dSaM]

@revolt_randy

Salut! & Welcome to BA!!!

Blender used to have a tool like you are speaking of. When blender went from 2.49 to 2.5, there was a massive re-write of blender’s code. That feature, called a ‘stride bone’, didn’t make it back into blender, it was dropped. Saw this video a couple of weeks ago, it uses a simple method to make the characters feet match uneven ground. I don’t think it will work on a curve… http://www.cgmasters.net/free-tutorials/offset-an-animation-cycle-in-blender/

Thanks to you too for your comment and informations :yes:

• Ok for “stride bone” (I started with Blender 2.68…) I hope it will come back !
• I have seen this tutorial and indeed it’ doesn’t work in a curve.

@revolt_randy

The generated rigify rig has FK/IK snapping, when the rig is in pose mode with an arm/leg bone selected, the controls can be found in the transforms panel (n-key). It should be close to the IK/FK switch, in the same sub-panel.

Yes the IK/FK switch is possible but it’s not really a “AUTO snap” like here for example :

Script de Auto-Snap para IK/FK

@revolt_randy

For rigify to do this, it would use constraints, but how would it know how to set up those constraints?

“Hand becomes a child of the pelvis”, yes that one should probably be added. And feet child of pelvis should probably be added, But other than that, anything else you might want to make a child of, you have to do by setting the constraint yourself. Animating a character picking up a ball, messing with key frames, constraints, and getting it all to work correctly can be a pain. The first time you do it. Then it becomes easier. Yes, someone should write a tool to automate this in blender.

Good luck et adieu,
Randy

In fact, I know that everything is possible, my idea is to find items that could be improved to be more productive (and maybe more professional?) to animate a character. A lot of people love Blender for modeling, cycles, his incredible particles system etc…but few for character animation.
Maybe that’s only an impression … but I don’t believe.
Nevertheless I still adopted and I will continue !!

Thanks again and good blend ^^
***SaM vimeo

[revolt_randy]

Ok for “stride bone” (I started with Blender 2.68…) I hope it will come back !

I have seen this tutorial and indeed it’ doesn’t work in a curve.

I don’t think the stride bone will be back. It was a quick addition for blender’s first open movie and has been forgotten. I’ve used the stride bone before and how it worked was pretty much how that video tutorial worked, moving the master bone after each cycle. The only difference was the fact that the stride bone followed a curve, and not a straight line. I think it can be done… but here again, a pain to setup, not easy…

On the fk/ik snapping: I saw the video, found the file. An older blender 2.49 file, I’ll look at it when I get back to my desktop computer.

I’ll reply back soon, when I have a bit more time…

Randy

[clockmender]

@3dSaM

Thanks alot for your comments (and humour ;))
Indeed, I use that too, but it’s not a good solution for me, I think that it could be even better if we use only ONE cycle, always the same in loop, you see what I mean ?

Have you tried the Cycles Modifier for an F-curve - you can make a sequence let’s say over 100 frames, then add the Cycles Modifier in the Graph Editor (F-curve Mode) and specify the number of repetitions you require both before and after your sequence. Incidentally, one way to show a character running over terrain is to use the cycles modifier with the character staying in one place and then animating the world and the camera for that matter, to rush by him - don’t forget this is virtual reality - you can move mountains!

Cordialment, Le Rosbif.

[norvman]

Why not an autosnap for the IK/FK switch ? Alignment by hand is a very tedious process…

last I looked… which was just today in Blender 2.73a… there is in fact a couple of IK/FK snapping buttons…

• It’s easy to animate a walk cycle loop on a straight path. It’s much more complicated on a curved trajectory or on a rough land. A real mobility management of character on a trajectory from a single reference walk cycle (or run cycle etc…) would be a great tool!!

yah… I’m not so sure… because in the end a walk cycle is one of those things that no two animaters are going to do alike… so you end up adjusting alot of that stuff… and that means using different tools in different situations…

that’s why Rigging is it’s own thing… your really are better off getting in there learning all the ‘stuff’ and practicing using it because your building the ‘art’ into the Rigg…

the onesize fits all Rigg … gives you ‘one size fits all’ results…

IMHO…

take like Ruff terrian… I would be more prone to want to use a srinkwrap modifier than anything else for that… without the curve…

[3dSaM]

@norvman

last I looked… which was just today in Blender 2.73a… there is in fact a couple of IK/FK snapping buttons…

oh! I hadn’t seen…sorry guys, I used an older version of blender, shame on me:o
it’s a good thing! not perfect but more confortable.

@norvman

yah… I’m not so sure… because in the end a walk cycle is one of those things that no two animaters are going to do alike… so you end up adjusting alot of that stuff… and that means using different tools in different situations…

that’s why Rigging is it’s own thing… your really are better off getting in there learning all the ‘stuff’ and practicing using it because your building the ‘art’ into the Rigg…

the onesize fits all Rigg … gives you ‘one size fits all’ results…

IMHO…

take like Ruff terrian… I would be more prone to want to use a srinkwrap modifier than anything else for that… without the curve…

About a tool for walking cycles…it seems essential to me to have one, it realizes when working on a television series eg and it’s not a question of rigging.
To end the cycle or begin it’s not a pb, simply create a specific cycle (or more) based on the reference and include them in the NLA editor before and after.
I use a tool like that with the “step mode” of 3dsmax and a friend of mine used a similar tool in XSI (specially developped for a tv project) it’s really great!

My idea here is just to suggest ideas that could make it more comfortable and productive the animation work;)

***SaM vimeo

[norvman]

About a tool for walking cycles…it seems essential to me to have one, it realizes when working on a television series eg and it’s not a question of rigging.
To end the cycle or begin it’s not a pb, simply create a specific cycle (or more) based on the reference and include them in the NLA editor before and after.
I use a tool like that with the “step mode” of 3dsmax and a friend of mine used a similar tool in XSI (specially developped for a tv project) it’s really great!

My idea here is just to suggest ideas that could make it more comfortable and productive the animation work;)

Sure I understand… I do lots of work in XSI myself and have used many other 3D softwares over the years (Maya, Max, Lightwave, XSI)… I am amazed at all the stuff that Blender can do…

but I agree with you… there is always room for improvement and ways to make things easier…

and if your just throwing animations together for clients that really don’t care too much on the exactly look …
sure… short cut tools I suppose are the best deal… no arguement out of me…

Still in the end… the more you know about something the more you can make even the short cut tools work better for you…
and not just making the work look better… but also in get jobs done quicker with less hassle…

[3dSaM]

Yes I agree with you too Norvman ^^
Blender is powerful and that’s why I have chosen as my main tool.
and I will also be more efficient by using more.
However, I hope to develop this tool for walk cycle … maybe an upcoming addon! if a developer is interested here, please let me know !

***SaM vimeo

[Lumpengnom]

@3dSaM"

What you think about all that and what your other ideas?
I would like some feedback from animators (working with Blender or other software…)
I insist : I looove blender! but I think it could become a better and terrific character animation tool !!
Isn’t it ?

One thing I find a bit annoying is that the motion path won´t update in realtime when either keyframing an object in 3D View or when manipulating keyframes and tangents in the graph editor. What makes it even more problematic is that the motion paths won´t even update after releasing the manipulated keyframe when doing this from the graph editor forcing you to press the “update paths” button in the motion path menue of the object.
Real time updating motion paths make it increadibly easy to create smooth animations especially for animated cameras.

[3dSaM]

Thanks Randy for these very interesting references!!
the walk-o-Matic is a good start, if really it would just create a generic walk cycle, that’s what I want !
It would be interesting to know if Nico Gaudenzi has enhanced its system since 2013…
For vehicles, it’s less problematic ; with some drivers, it’s fast and easy to automate the wheel’s rotations and just use a shrinkwarp constraint to adhere to the ground (as you can see in my modest CarToon demo - at end - here).

***SaM vimeo

[norvman]

As I read thru some of this… It also occurs to me that perhaps on of the reasons a “walkcycle” add-on has not been a high priority for Blender is that Blender handles Animation Actions in the Non LInear Editor quite well… I think alot of guys build their own walk cycle … throw it in the NLA and then work it from there…

for an example of what I’m saying…

Also one could use a plane that measures the distance of your walkcycle stride then use Curve modifier combined with an Array modifier to lay out a path for your character to follow… then using that as your measuring stick you move your character along that path as it does it’s walk cycle… adjust the cycle speed as needed…

[revolt_randy]

I’ve been looking into fixing the Walk-o-Matic script, but I’m not that good at python scripting…

but at the end of the day, it will produce a simple walk cycle. On a straight path.

Isn’t that what the aforementioned CG Masters tutorial did? But I think the CG Masters method allowed more freedom by mixing tracks in the nla editor…

@norvman

for an example of what I’m saying…

Also one could use a plane that measures the distance of your walkcycle stride then use Curve modifier combined with an Array modifier to lay out a path for your character to follow… then using that as your measuring stick you move your character along that path as it does it’s walk cycle… adjust the cycle speed as needed…

@norvman Interesting idea… I was thinking something different…

Randy

[Ovnuniarchos]

I’d like to see morph target influences moved from mesh to object, so one can use instanced meshes without the morphing of one affecting the others.

[pauljs75]

A way to get back the change in any value which occurs between frames in an animation. (I think these are known as delta values? Should be easy enough to get from change in Y for a given propery on the F-curve between adjacent frames, no?) I’m sure this has lots of uses in relation to drivers and making some aspects of rigging easier to automate.

Might be a script out there somewhere, but seems like this value should be built-in. (Or more accessible if it already is.)

[themonster]

How to add/erase frames, (no keyframes) just empty frames, is very important when changing timing with the key poses…

if we have it let me know how