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  1. #1
    Member jackblack's Avatar
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    Jesus wasn't born on Christmas!

    Ok so here's the deal I'm a Chrstian (here comes the text books) and I know for a fact that Jesus was not born on Chrstimas. As a child my parents (whom are pastors) taught me that Jesus was not born on Christmas and that no one that they know of knows when He was born, but we celebrate it on Christmas anyway's. I made an entry in me journal about this and I was waonder what you guy's think, I heard Jesus was born in March, but I'm not sure, but I propose that we do away with Christmas and rename it Winter Solstice, since that's what it is, I also propose that we try celebrating Jesus's birth on the actual day He was born.
    Here's me entry:

    "The True Meaning of Christmas
    O Christmas Tree

    "Jeremiah 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."

    The Christmas Tree is actually a pagan tradition dating back before Christ. The god Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. This festival became known as the Saturnalia, and friends and family would exchange gifts.
    Christmas is actually a celebration of the winter solstice, a pagan holiday still celebrated by pagans.

    Here's the big jaw dropper, Jesus wasn't born on Christmas. That's right guy's, Jesus wasn't born on Christmas, He was probably born during the warmer times, consider when the shepherds were tending to their flocks, back then the shepherds would not have been with their flocks in the open field during the coldness of winter. So this points to a warmer time. The birth of Jesus was never celebrated by the first Christians, cause the time He was born is not as important as the ministry He lived and the sacrifice He gave, "Do ye this in remembrance of Me" that's the most important holiday. So why is it called Christmas, well the Holy Roman Catholic Church decided to meet pagans half way, so said Catholics decided Jesus' birth would be set on Saturnalia day, a lie of when Christ was born.

    So am I saying Christmas is evil and that we shouldn't celebrate it? Heck no, celebrate Christmas, I think Christmas is a great holiday you should celebrate it, but also, have communion with your family, to truly remeber our Savior. I think Christmas is a holiday that should be celebrated with friends and family, it's a celebration of the love of family and a remembrance that our God came to the earth as a human child and carried out a great destiny for us, a Savior for the world.

    What about the tree? Well I've never worshiped it, I've always thought it were a fun thing to do, how do you take it? Do worship the tree are you focusing your sight on it, does it cause you to stumble in your faith? If not then by all means do the tree thing, I think it's great fun, besides what else are you going to put presents under? Celebrate Christmas, have fun, love your family, remember the birth of Christ.

    Oh by the way Santa is actually derived from a Nordic Demi-god that used to drive a giant slay pulled by reindeer and would drop outta the sky onto thieves and take back the things that the thieves had stolen.

    Now there was also some dude named Nicholas who was born during the third century in Patara, a village in what is now Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop of Myra, while still a young man. Bishop Nicholas became known throughout the land for his generosity to the those in need and his love for children, but those Catholics decided to make him a saint and once again mixed in the pagan beliefs in with something good. But hang your stockings cause that's cool, but I'd advise against telling your children that a fat man is going to physically impossibly push himself down a chimney and put presents under a tree, cause that's a bunch of crap, it doesn't do the jolly fat man justice, St. Nick was an awesome Christian who did as Christ said, so tell the true story of Santa and not the Hollywood crap. Have a Merry Christmas too."

    P.S.
    There's no religeous agenda here so please do'nt be offended.
    Jimmy



  2. #2
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    let the flames begin!



    BTW, i dont think he was born on christmas either.



  3. #3
    Member Bussman's Avatar
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    Re: Jesus was'nt born on Christmas!

    Originally Posted by jackblack
    ...Christmas is actually a celebration of the winter solstice, a pagan holiday still celebrated by pagans...
    Originally Posted by Homer Simpson
    ...God bless those pagans...



  4. #4
    Member ajc158's Avatar
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    Good point...

    What the marketing companies would say in reply is that Christmas is a time when people can share their warmth and love and even if it is a construct, isn't it a good thing?

    Answer: Nooo! You share warmth and love and whatever else you like any time of year, and since you are not doing it due to some false consumerist holiday it might actually be a genuine expression. Since when do relationships require turkey, crackers and other overpriced novelties to work?

    If you want to show your appreciation for someone in your life buy them the present when you want to, not when you are told to.

    Not a Christian, but I agree with most of your sentiments...

    Alex



  5. #5
    Well, making a successful church is hard - you've got to do marketing. And in the early days, a good way of "marketing" was to co-opt "pagan" festivals and use them to teach Christianity.

    Pagans have an autumnal "day of the dead" feast? Well, let's make the day AFTER it a Holy day to remember all the saints.... let's call it "All Saints Day."

    I think I remember reading that the Easter celebration was at the wrong time of the year, too. Doesn't diminish the message, though.



  6. #6
    Boohoo if Jesus wasnt born in christmas. The main thing is He was born.
    I believe he was born near christmas.
    website @ www.falgor.net | try this custom theme for the forum!



  7. #7
    Member Flurp's Avatar
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    my religions classes in school, have taught me that jesus wasn't born on christmas, and christmas, is a pagan holiday celebrating the winter solsitace(sp?) as jackblack said.

    i believe the R.E (Religious education) teacher told us that he was born i think in october, but i might have dreamt that, i don't know, so don't quote me on that.

    even thought the 'christmas' celebrations were brought about by pagans (but of course they did not call it christmas), it desn't really matter what time of year it is we are still celebrating the birth of 'Jesus Christ', and i do get very annoyed when people only think of it as a 'buying presents ordeal'.





    !-You is got to think of da baby jesus-!



  8. #8
    Member jackblack's Avatar
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    "Boohoo if Jesus wasnt born in christmas. The main thing is He was born.
    I believe he was born near christmas."
    Only problem with that is if He were born around Christmas, then why would the sheppards be with they're flocks in open feilds at night? Around March is the time they did that I hear and the sheep would be congregated and and close to the sheppards camp at that time if infact the sheppards left home.



  9. #9
    Member jackblack's Avatar
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    it just really bugs me when I see the Church believing a lie. I think Winter Solstice is a great day to celebrate, but Geewiz if we know Jesus was'nt born on that day, then why keep the lie alive? What's the point? Tradition? Screw tradition, I want the truth! Sorry I get a tad passionate when I speak (must be that preacher blood in my viens).
    Jimmy



  10. #10
    Donating Member nico's Avatar
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    Does that matter in any way at what time of year Jesus was born? Personally, I don't really care whether I don't hit the exact day.

    I also don't know how cold the Israel winter is, so maybe they were outside in December.
    There are only 10 kinds of people: Those who understand binary and those who don´t.



  11. #11
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    Nah, your right he weren't born on christmas. We celebrate christmas the 24th December. Not even the romans knew when Christ was born, but they celebrated there sun god the 24th and the roman emperor didn't wanted it to be too many changes so when they celebrated sun god (Apollo) they took that as the birthday of Christ. They chose Apollos celebrating day as christmas because that was the most important holidat in their religon. Under the time when Rome existed as a country they were the biggest country so much people listened to them. Here in sweden we had another religous holiday then too called Jul. So we call christmas Jul.



  12. #12
    You acted like this was a huge suprise jackblack, whoop-dee-doo... Even if he was born on christmas day, when we changed callendars after he left earth, christmas wouldn't be on the same day anyways... It's the thought that counts I guess you could say, it doesn't matter where in the year his day is, as long as he has one.
    I am a grue.



  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Falgor
    Boohoo if Jesus wasnt born in christmas. The main thing is He was born.
    I hope he wasn't born near Christmas, otherwise he would have only gotten one set of presants and that would have plain sucked



  14. #14
    hehe, my brother was born christmas eve, he doesn't get double presents :P
    I am a grue.



  15. #15
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    Oh the humanity!

    Lock, lock this god forsaken thread! Please!

    Can't we just leave elYsiun religion free? Go to some christian forum and post that.

    First and last time I'm posting in a religious thread, but it's just getting so annoying now!

    Mystery
    Talent is just an excuse to give up.

    "we've got trenchcoats and bad attitudes" - John Constantine, HellBlazer



  16. #16
    Member theeth's Avatar
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    Whoever was under the impression that Jesus was born on Christmas day needs a serious reality check.

    Pretty much all the christian holydays are based on roman pagan beliefs, so there you go.

    Martin
    Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
    - John Lennon



  17. #17
    Member LohnS's Avatar
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    yeah i catholic its a pretty wide known fact its really hard to know exactly when ofcourse, but the fact that we celebrate his birth doesnt really matter which day i guess, seems to have christmas for the religious reason and the celebration of all the other stuff too is nice to have at once, or theres just TOO MANY presents to buy =P

    as far as i knew he was born pretty close, maybe 18th december or something less or more then 10 days from 25th.



  18. #18
    Member mzungu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theeth
    Pretty much all the christian holydays are based on roman pagan beliefs, so there you go.
    Yep, thanks to good ol' Constantine politicising Christianity for his own benefit/gain. Once it became the "official" religion (ie: church & state joined into one - all the citizens were required by law to convert) they simply renamed and revamped the existing "pagan" holidays and kept on partying... then the huns showed up and ruined all the fun.

    This is a non-issue. I think its more significant that its estimated that Jesus was actually born 4-6 years before the year we have designated as zero A.D. That means our years should shift back 4-6 years (lets just make it 5 to average it out, eh?) which means we're already in 2010! Whoohooo! (If you're shootin' for accuracy, why not take that one on?)
    - mzungu
    The agnostic dislexic insomniac: lies awake in bed at night wondering if there really is a dog.
    "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." - Dale Carnegie



  19. #19
    Member jackblack's Avatar
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    You could be right. When it comes to time I don't think any of us really know the answer, of course it's not that big of a deal, but I get tired of people believing somthing in they're own religeon that has been disproven for a long time, but yet they still keep the lie alive. I think St. Nicholas has to be one of my favorite people in German history, geez, that dude was awsome
    Jimmy



  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by jackblack
    it just really bugs me when I see the Church believing a lie. I think Winter Solstice is a great day to celebrate, but Geewiz if we know Jesus was'nt born on that day, then why keep the lie alive? What's the point? Tradition? Screw tradition, I want the truth! Sorry I get a tad passionate when I speak (must be that preacher blood in my viens).
    Jimmy
    When will people stop reading the bible as it is?!?

    I'm an atheist...but I do believe some of the things the bible says is true..only REALLY deformed to fit as a good story to read/tell. That's all.

    and as someone said, who care if jesus wasn't born on christmas exactly. He probably was around that time.

    oh and since debates such as this are sooooooooooooo important, you know that the christ wasn't born at year 0? he was born at like year -6 or -7 because of some mistakes in year calculation!
    [edit]oops..didn't see someone already pointed it out..see the sorry part at the end of my post[/edit]

    haha we're all fucked!

    %|

    sorry, that's probably my atheist blood in my veins...
    Js Guillemette



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