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  1. #41
    Member tatasoka's Avatar
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    Cool! But for what should I use it?

    I'd love to see it on Blender Material Repository, they use a very bad scene there...

    Sorry for my bad English



  2. #42
    the previews seem well meant but they are way too heavy. I have a relativly strong PC and the render times are sickening. Why not make a beautiful car model to test car paint on instead of putting it on a blender balloon?? For others that don't like the long render times: select the area lights and disable the ray traced shadows. you don't really need them. they look nice but anything raytraced in blender is sickenly slow. The other thing you should do is model the object in lower poly then add a subsurf mod without applying it. Because most of the time you can't tell the difference of subsurf in a render. And BTW, the fluid scene is pretty.



  3. #43
    Member tuqueque's Avatar
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    Whoahaha... quite some feedback... let's try to answer all of them...

    Originally Posted by oogsnoepje
    tuqueue, these preview scenes are simply beautiful!

    I really like it you're using gamma correction as well, it makes the scene look so much more realistic. This is great stuff to show people what gamma correction can do for one's work. The resulting renders actually scream "we were not rendered with Blender!" to me. It's awesome how such simple corrections can do such great work at enhancing realism.
    thanks for those words , that was also the idea, to show what Blender internal is capable of and to achieve realism comparable to GI renderers not only by the look but by actual physical behavior.

    Originally Posted by sick
    thanks a lot tuqueque! I've spent a few months trying to figure out how to apply gamma correction, and finally you made it clear to me, thanks!
    You're welcome

    Originally Posted by arexma
    First thanks,
    second, i am curious...

    Did you make those too/did they use yours or did you "got inspired" by those?

    http://mxmgallery.maxwellrender.com/
    I'm not entirely sure the scope of your questions but in a try to answer:

    I got inspired by it among other renderers preview scenes. It wasn't fair that other programs and renderers had cool scenes and Blender doesn't... I had the desire to retrieve something to Blender's comunity and thought this was a good start.

    Originally Posted by photoguy
    Hey, just an idea for the logo/preview thing, you should do the first one Red, the second one Green, and the third one Blue...like RGB.
    Instead of being just gray, it would add a nice touch of color.
    I don't wanna sound rude but that's not a good idea, the moment you put any color on anything that is not the tested material, you are risking to miss the actual look of it. Anything but your material has to be completely neutral so you can see "the real thing".

    Just to give a little example, imagine you are testing a yellowish glass... the moment you put for example a blue element on the environment, some areas of the glass might look green.

    Originally Posted by futar
    I see you're using the gamma correction method. This method makes the original blender material preview appear darker than how you want the actual material to look. In a thread that I started about gamma correction N30N made a pynode that enabled the gamma correction on materials to appear only at render time so that the material previews would stay looking how you want them to look.

    The thread is here if you are interested in the pynode:

    http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=136555

    You might find it helpful; although I ran into problems using it when I tried to do some compositing. Unfortunately nobody tried to help me solve the problem at the end of the thread.

    Your renders look great anyway. I have to say I struggled a lot trying to get the gamma correction workflow to give me good results. I found that any darkish materials, eg. a chocolate brown colour, were hard to retrieve after gamma correction. Meaning that they tended to look almost black even after the reverse 0.45 gamma correction in the compositor. I also found that my shadows always seemed to look washed out.

    So just to let people know that gamma correction workflow isn't easy to achieve, although the results can look more realistic.
    Yes, it is hard to use! it toke a couple of weeks for me to really get the proper and consistent workflow in Blender... but after you find it, it gets sort of natural on your work and you learn to "predict" how colors or materials will look after Gamma correction.

    Exposure is another factor to take into account when working with this approach.

    Just to clarify any doubt about what the node setup i did, does to the scene:


    Originally Posted by delic
    Your preview scene is a hundred times too heavy !

    Nice work, nice meshes, but a preview scene should be lightweight, no ?

    The test renders I made using RAY are a much too long to build and heavy in the memory for a preview scene I think.

    Just to be honest ...
    Just as UglyMike wrote, the term "preview" doesn't mean to be fast or draft quality or something like that... Actually this scenes should be as realistic as possible.

    And of course, Blender's Internal renderer speed is legendary.

    Originally Posted by radialronnie
    the previews seem well meant but they are way too heavy. I have a relativly strong PC and the render times are sickening.
    Yes, those are heavy scenes, but just for Blender's raytracer... (And I'm sorry, I don't want to sound as a pain in the @$$ for developers but sadly is true).

    Originally Posted by radiaronnie
    Why not make a beautiful car model to test car paint on instead of putting it on a blender balloon??
    Is a free world ... but the moment you are done making car paint materials, your car scene model will not be cool anymore if you want to test glass, stone, mug materials for example.

    The purpose of the "Blender balloon" is to be as versatile as possible.

    Originally Posted by radialronnie
    For others that don't like the long render times: select the area lights and disable the ray traced shadows. you don't really need them. they look nice but anything raytraced in blender is sickenly slow.
    I wouldn't recommend it because you will lose a lot of "physical" correctness. But as i wrote before, feel free to do whatever you want with the scenes

    Originally Posted by radialronnie
    And BTW, the fluid scene is pretty.
    Thanks

    And finally, just to clear a couple of last points...

    You have to understand that if you wanna use this scenes "correctly" you have to adapt to a completely different approach than the purely artistic one...

    You have to be willing to sacrifice time-speed over quality and correctness. Think of this scenes as if you were using an unbiased renderer. This scenes are not meant only for "they look cool" but for "they behave as in real live".

    And of course, there are some problems with them, i'm still learning Blender and this project will hopefully evolve into better versions as i learn new things and Blender evolves.

    My dream is that even some developers (broken, Yves, UncleZeiv... for example) make some tests with the scenes to test new things and evaluate things like raytracing algorithms, volumetrics, physically correct materials, IES lights, GI...

    Well, that's it for now.
    Thanks again for your feedback
    tuqueque



  4. #44
    Thanks for making clear you node setup in the compositor. But as you know, to do gamma correction you have to correct the material colour (like you have done with your gold material, using an RGB curve) using the material nodes. One of the points I was trying to make is that adding the gamma correction in the material node editor will obviously change the appearance of the material preview so that it will no longer represent the final render. The pynode created by N30N, which you can find in the thread I posted a link to, tries to resolve this problem.

    I would be interested to see how you deal with creating a dark material (such as a dark chocolate for example) using this gamma correction workflow.



  5. #45
    Member tuqueque's Avatar
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    ... And here is your dark chocolate mister... take it while is hot...



    and even if you want, here's the .blend file... DarkChocolate

    I hope you can see there's possible to achieve a lot of materials, even the dark ones... you just have to set parameters really carefully with darker colors. Don't be afraid to set values for RGB as low as 0.01... if that works, then that's the color.

    Also, it's ok to lower quality parameters when making tests, i turned off OSA, lower resolution image to the half, used low sampling number for the blurry reflections and even lowered sampling on area lights. Rendertime for test images were 3:05 mins in my pc. I think that's a very friendly rendertime. In 25 minutes had the right parameters ready for final render.

    And that's how it looks the preview...


    And finally, is not the perfect solution but you temporarily can make a simple node setup to see how the material would look with Gamma correction...


    greets.
    tuqueque.



  6. #46
    Thank you very much indeed sir. You are very generous with your chocolate. And the temporary node setup is a neat solution too. However you do seem to be having to guess at a darker colour than the one you actually want, and then applying the gamma correction. Which is fine, but it would be a lot simpler to just choose the actual colour you want and then have the gamma correction applied only at render time.

    In the screenshot you can see the pynode at the top has it's 'RenderOnly' setting on full and the pynode below has it turned off. The top one makes it possible to still view your original colour choice in the preview, which I think is helpful.

    Last edited by futar; 06-Dec-08 at 05:40.



  7. #47
    I ask again. Can anyone get Yafaray to work on this? I just get instant error then quit



  8. #48
    Originally Posted by youngbatcat View Post
    I ask again. Can anyone get Yafaray to work on this? I just get instant error then quit
    You need to redefine the lights and render settings in the Yaf(a)ray gui. Even though they are already set, set them again and all should be well.



    You might also want to define the light planes as meshlights or set material emit values.

    Oh, and tuqueque, thanks for this, very impressive. I also felt that it is polygon heavy, but having used it the results are good. You must have spent some time on it.


    Last edited by organic; 06-Dec-08 at 15:26.



  9. #49
    Member tuqueque's Avatar
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    @ futar: indeed is a useful script!... i would like that Blender could handle internally this without the need for scripts though. I tend to avoid using scripts or plugins and try to stick with "official" bundled features.

    @ youngbatcat: fortunately organic helped you here, i've never used Yafray or Yafaray... But I'd love to see some testing of the b.m.p.s. with other renderers... Yafaray, Lux, Indigo, Kerkythea and even Aqsis or something like that. The scene was made to be relatively easy to export for other engines.

    @ organic: Thanks!... yes, i'd spend quite some time on it, but torally worth it!



  10. #50
    Member logunwhite321's Avatar
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    awesome dude keep that awesome concept crunched!wicked!



  11. #51
    Member tatasoka's Avatar
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    In my render the highlight is wrong...blue



    Sorry for my bad English



  12. #52
    Member tuqueque's Avatar
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    Hello tatasoka...

    Could you share more information?... are you using Blender Internal Renderer? what are your material settings?... are you using Node materials?... are you using a custom Build of Blender?... The more information you give us, the more help we can give you back.

    Greets.
    tuqueque



  13. #53
    I still can not get your scene to render in Yafaray due to errors. But I did start a new scene from scratch to test a sudo simple set up to see yafarays speed v.s. blenders..
    FFFFFFFF Yafaray kicks blender to hell at render time. It''s not even night and day.

    So I ask again, can some one assist in getting the scene working for yaf? I deleted the lights and replaced them with simple lamps. Nuked the rest of the back ground meshes and so on.

    Same bug. It refuses to start a render.



  14. #54
    Member tuqueque's Avatar
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    I don't know if you also made "single user" the objects of each scene... I mean, all the Environment objects are linked through all the scenes... Make sure to set single user (U) every object. Maybe that's causing the crashes.



  15. #55
    Member Nitronic755's Avatar
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    Just saying thanks for a very useful tool.
    Active WIP's: Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera | F-22 Raptor | Ferrari 430 Scuderia

    To all Blender Car modellers, join BlenderCars.com.



  16. #56
    Originally Posted by youngbatcat View Post
    I still can not get your scene to render in Yafaray due to errors. But I did start a new scene from scratch to test a sudo simple set up to see yafarays speed v.s. blenders..
    FFFFFFFF Yafaray kicks blender to hell at render time. It''s not even night and day.

    So I ask again, can some one assist in getting the scene working for yaf? I deleted the lights and replaced them with simple lamps. Nuked the rest of the back ground meshes and so on.

    Same bug. It refuses to start a render.
    I made the image above with Yaf(a)ray. Assuming it works for you normally, what is the error you get when rendering the B.M.P scene?



  17. #57
    Member Meta-Androcto's Avatar
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    Hi, this is really good.
    I've been running a series of tests with materials from my Library.
    Very good results!
    thanks.



  18. #58
    Member Yaroslav_L's Avatar
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    So nice preview scene for so bad render engine?
    Can I use it for yaf-a-ray?
    Any copyright?
    _________________
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    3D XATA - interior and lighting design, arch viz, photometric calculations.
    web: www.3DXATA.com - under redesign



  19. #59
    Member tuqueque's Avatar
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    ?... Copyright?... yes... Creative Commons Attribution V3.0, which means you can do whatever you want with it, even for commercial purposes, you just have to credit the author of the scene.

    And yes, i would love to see some tests with other render engines!



  20. #60
    Member tatasoka's Avatar
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    @tuqueque

    I'm using Blender 2.48a, with Internal render...the material is simple, only colored Ray Mirror, no Nodes.If I reduce the Mirror (less than 0.300) there is no problem. With the other scenes (fluid and cloth) the problem is the same...

    I think the problem is with the Specular, when I turn off there is no problem too. But I made a test with your gold material, added some spec, and the result was normal.

    Sorry for my bad English.

    Thanks!



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