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Thread: BGE, the GPL, and Android App Stores

  1. #141
    Originally Posted by blendenzo View Post

    log0, I will add your question to the answer thread. The short answer is this: From a legal perspective, that is between the Blender Foundation and ALUT. If ALUT does not agree with the Blender Foundation's interpretation of the license, then ALUT may take legal action against the Blender Foundation. If ALUT were to win a case against the Blender Foundation, the Blender Foundation would have to pay damages to ALUT and either negotiate a new license with them or find another solution. Nowhere in there would an individual artist or game maker be subject to legal action, and nowhere in there would the output of Blender become the property of ALUT to re-license as they please.

    Put another way: If you have a cell phone, it is almost certainly infringing multiple patents held by other cell phone manufacturers. The manufacturers sue each other, they do not sue you. Your use of the cell phone does not legally endanger you.
    Thanks blendenzo, and sorry if people feel annoyed by my questions/comments. I'll shut up after this last one, I promise.

    You state that the ALUT issue would be between ALUT and BF. But BF is not writing/owning my scripts which are eventually linking against alut through bge/bpy. So it is not BF violating the GPL but me, or am I wrong here? I am not sure what the cellphone example has to do with this. It is not about simple usage, but about interpreted programs(non-GPL) linking against GPL code.

  2. #142
    Member blendenzo's Avatar
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    Apr 2006
    Michigan, USA
    Originally Posted by log0 View Post
    You state that the ALUT issue would be between ALUT and BF. But BF is not writing/owning my scripts which are eventually linking against alut through bge/bpy. So it is not BF violating the GPL but me, or am I wrong here? I am not sure what the cellphone example has to do with this. It is not about simple usage, but about interpreted programs(non-GPL) linking against GPL code.
    The cell phone example was meant to take the argument outside of the narrow perspective of software and put it into the broader perspective of common sense.

    That said, I anticipated your concern and I just posted an answer to this to the "Technical Questions" section in the GPL Answer Thread. You can read the whole thing there, but I think it would be useful to look at it this way:

    The .blend format is an interpreted data format. It is not a compiled binary executable program. So the .blend format is like a .jpeg image, an .mp4 video, or an .swf object in that it depends on an external program to interpret it. With each of these formats, there are multiple programs or libraries available that can interpret them.

    My question in response to yours is a simple one: How can the actions of the interpreter program affect the end user license of the data file? An example will help.

    Imagine for a moment that .jpeg had a scripting ability added to it (which would be a horrible idea from an internet security standpoint). Now imagine that 6 different .jpeg interpreters began supporting this scripting ability. 1 interpreter wrote its own original code, 2 linked against proprietary libraries they had licensed, 2 linked against GPL libraries, and 1 linked to a library that illegally implemented patented pixel coloring technology.

    Now imagine that you create a new scripted .jpeg file (in order to implement a replacement for the deprecated HTML <blink> tag). Does it make sense to you that your image would change license based on what libraries the interpreter links against? Obviously the answer is "no." Otherwise, anyone who wanted to force the GPL on your image could just open it with one of the interpreters that would link against a GPL library.

    The same holds true for .blend files. There are currently only 4 major interpreters available for games written in the .blend file format: Blender, the BlenderPlayer, Burster and GameKit. 3 of those link GPL libraries, but GameKit does not. Now imagine someone wrote a Python script interpreter or converter for GameKit and GameKit could suddenly interpret all of your Python scripts as Lua. When your .blend file game is run with this (hypothetical) version of GameKit, it does not link GPL libraries and you keep your own license. But what if a malicious end user decides to run the .blend with the BlenderPlayer? Does your game suddenly inherit the GPL against your wishes? No.

    Hopefully that made sense. Again, the real issue is this: .blend files are an interpreted data format, and you cannot control the actions of the interpreter. The assumption that a certain interpreter will be used does not imply a license.
    "From somewhere, a transmission..."
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  3. #143
    Member kilon's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
    Greece , Athens
    if you really want to be strict about it , python is not code, c is not code, any programming language out there is not code. Its just text files writtent in a specific syntax that are translated to real code which is machine code. And even machine code could be considered as data too.

    And we should not forget that code even with the normal definition of it, can contain data ... or what happends when code is parsed into strings that is technically data.

    Before you know you end up with a huge pile of legal mess. Thats all in thoery, because in practice its completely another story. Courts dont go into such scrutiny , they dont care , they only care about the customs followed in a profession and what people expect to receive or expect to offer. And of course ALWAY courts will depend on precedence. So if you think that any judge will actually sit down to measure with accuracy where GPL ends and your license begins you are way off. Most likely he wont even bother and likely to follow a middle solution and call it day.

    You have also have to bare in mind, that these cases rarely go to the court because law has the facilities for the two parties to reach an agreement. So you have all the chances in the world to stop doing anything that will annoy the other person, if you finally reach the court rooms it means you have something to gain with going to the court and you want to be in those court rooms.

    This is why 99.9999% of those claims is between companies who either want to defend their right or have some serious profit to make out of this.

    And that is why there is an extremely rare chance to get in serious trouble.

    I am not feeling annoyed with your questions , I already said this is the purpose of the forum. I only say you worry too much about things that is highly unlikely to happen to you.

    And please do not shut up, at least not for me. I never ask people to shut up in a forum unless they are rude, and you have been polite and made some legitimate questions. No need to apalogise. My paranoid remark was not meant to be that you are stupid or something, nor did I meant to be rude, just to ephasize that you worry too much.
    Last edited by kilon; 04-Jul-12 at 04:00. <--- This my blog, you will find things i make here like music, 3d and 2d graphics and python programming.

  4. #144
    Member leonnn's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    Brazil - PR - Maringá
    Originally Posted by motorsep View Post
    The youtube video in your signature doesn't work
    Not thread related but the video is on now, thanks to tell me that!
    Last edited by leonnn; 04-Jul-12 at 11:16.
    Intel 486
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  5. #145

    I have edited my original post.
    Last edited by Sinan; 04-Jul-12 at 14:23.

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