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  1. #921
    I have a question about the finalizing.
    If I understood correctly the finalizing is actually export the model in Blender compatible format and optionally saving it in the original ManuelBastioniLab format. So if there is a need I can reload and rework the model again but losing everything made with Blender after the finalizing.
    So can I use at least for some Blender functions the original ManuelBastioniLab model w/o finalizing?



  2. #922
    This image show the issue with baking. Any advice?

    lab_bake.jpg



  3. #923
    Hi!

    I have a problem with the save pose feature in combination with the load bvh feature:
    • I load a BVH animation and everything looks great
    • before.png
    • I want to export a frame as a pose - seems to work as well
    • I load the pose again and most rotations are wrong (visually twisted)
    • after.png


    I don't know the reason for this behaviour - I manually compared the pose rotation quaternion but they are the same as before the load save... Do you have any hint were I can check next?

    Great work, btw!
    KR, Alex



  4. #924
    Guys, I thought I am not dumb but now start to doubt it. I cannot grasp how to make even the very first step in 3D graphics using Blender and ManuelbastioniLab, although I read Blender manual and ManuelbastioniLab guide and watched zillions of video tutorials. So I would humbly ask to be patient and to dumb-proof explain me what I am messing and how to do it:
    1. I start by clicking on ManuelbastioniLab and on Init character (and make adjustments if needed):
    Attachment 505118
    2. Then click RMB to select the human body and click on Object and Material at the Properties Editor in the right; nothing changes.
    Attachment 505119
    3. After that I click at the bottom on Method to display/shade objects and choose Material and Texture to see whats the difference.
    4. Then I click on Rendered and no matter if I clicked on Material and Texture or just on Texture or just on Material no matter I get jsut this:
    5.png

    Which is just ugly and doesn't look like a skin or a anything at all. And I can't even remove the censorshop.

    So I will appreciate a step by step help very much.



  5. #925
    Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
    Currently it just requires to select the two involved meshes: body mesh and the proxy mesh.
    Do you mean that it should also work if one selects the skeleton and the proxy mesh?
    Exactly. It's a few extra clicks if I load a pose and then have to select a different set of objects to get at the proxy tools, but it also threw me for a loop the first time I tried it.



  6. #926
    Originally Posted by Handel View Post
    Guys, I thought I am not dumb but now start to doubt it. I cannot grasp how to make even the very first step in 3D graphics using Blender and ManuelbastioniLab, although I read Blender manual and ManuelbastioniLab guide and watched zillions of video tutorials.
    You have invalid attachments so it's hard to follow what you did but if i understand correctly you did ... nothing.
    Clicking on material or texture just brings the properties panes allowing you to edit those. It's like bringing the text style dialog in (Libre/Open/MS)Office. Just doing this won't change your text to bold or justify it. You have to actually change something in those properties.

    If this is indeed what you did, i suggest you re-read blender's documentation and watch some beginner level videos again. Blender is an extremely complex piece of software and jumping straight to rendering a human model is probably a bad idea. Nobody can really help you get good looking skin in the viewport (it would already look better with an actual render) unless you have some understanding of how Cycles (the render engine) works, how to lit your scene correctly. How to use SSS. And most basically how to even change material parameters.

    I think you can read how to remove the censorship band on manuel's web page (of course you need to know how to edit materials). EDIT : Here

    Last edited by Bob Morane; 16-Nov-17 at 10:41.



  7. #927
    Hi Manuel. First, great job on that new lab. Lots of improvements since i last tried it (was it 1.3 or 1.4, not sure)

    I have however, a few questions (and if you don't mind, some suggestions).


    1. Rigging.
      1. The new advanced rigs look great but i'm a bit confused how to actually use each of those. The IK rig is (IIUC and from what i see) not entirely complete yet. However when i create a character with IK rig, no other rig is visible. Even on skeleton layers 1 and 3 (hidden by default). Mhh, it occurred while i was typing that maybe they were just not visible so i turned x-ray and layer 1 looks like the old skeleton, just not with the default octahedral shape.
      2. Similarly, if i select only the muscle bones i don't see the basic skeleton. However i don't think i'm supposed to directly touch the muscle bones do i? I suppose they are controlled by the normal bones and "simply" influence the mesh deformation so it's more natural, but they don't control the pose and i have to use the old bones to pose the figure, even thought they are hidden by default.
      • Some suggestions (based on how i understand the rigs, i might be wrong of course)
        • You might want to turn x-ray by default. Some of the IK bones can be lost inside the body with some poses (such as sitting) and as you probably see from the points above, it's confusing at first not seeing the bones you have to select to pose the figure.
        • I guess the change in shape from octahedral to stick for the old bones when using IK rig is a limitation of Blender (shape is defined for the entire rig, not per-bone). Using custom bones shape would probably help. In addition it would help differentiate (IK) bones that should be rotated from those that can be dragged, and even help immediately know what some bones do (an eye shaped bone would probably be immediately recognized as the head target bone). I'm probably going to do this myself if i start doing something serious with the lab this time.
        • Having the bones that should be manipulated directly on the same layer as the IK bones would definitely help users a lot. As it is now, some normal bones don't have any effect if you try to manipulate them directly but you still need to manipulate others. This means you have to keep 2 layers visible and then guess which ones you have to directly rotate.
        • Until you release 1.6.1, put a note in the opening post about the location of "IK_control_hip_pos" bone, not everyone will read the whole thread. Well, not everyone will read the whole first post of course but it will help those that do.
    2. Expressions and morphs.
      I really like the new system which is a huge improvement over the old one. I guess the list will grow with time (take you time).
      • There is however one macro morph i'd like to request : eyes rotation. Currently (unless i missed something obvious) in order to turn the eyes left or right, one has to go to the shapekeys, find the "Expressions_eyesVert_min" and other similar morphs, guess where min and max go and use those. It's not very convenient for something that's quite a basic task.
      • Even better would be the ability to control eyes rotation with some helper bones, by moving a target object. I've read the discussion about face bones and the pros and cons of various approaches and i think it's possible to get the best of all worlds with an additional option. Having an optional rig (there's already 2 now) adding bones that control drivers to morphs would allow the ease of control of bones, with the precision of morphs. The reason i say "optional" is as you said, this would only work for models that stay in Blender. By making this an option you wouldn't add distracting features for artists who plan to export the models, but those who want to use them inside Blender for stills/animations would be able to use them.
      • If the morphs list grows, it should probably be split in sub-lists to keep things organized. Phonemes are perfect candidates for their sub-list, as are "body morphs" (currently limited to breathing and deglutition). The search function is useful but the requirement to know the name beforehand and the lack of "real time filtering" make it less than ideal for people who are looking for something without knowing exactly what.
    • When you really have nothing better to do, consider a checkbox for the "censor band". I couldn't care less about it but it looks like some people find it "distracting"



  8. #928
    Member Manuel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Handel View Post
    So can I use at least for some Blender functions the original ManuelBastioniLab model w/o finalizing?
    To avoid unpredictable results, never customize the character before the finalization. Read more: http://www.manuelbastioni.com/guide_..._character.php
    My open source Blender addon to create 3D humans: www.manuelbastioni.com



  9. #929
    Member Manuel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rainman_tsr View Post
    Hi!

    I have a problem with the save pose feature in combination with the load bvh feature.
    I don't know the reason for this behaviour - I manually compared the pose rotation quaternion but they are the same as before the load save... Do you have any hint were I can check next?

    Great work, btw!
    KR, Alex
    Thanks for report. Probably it's related to the roll alignment: loading an animation can modify the structure of base skeleton in two cases:

    - When bvh roll angles are different from lab roll angles, lab roll angles are modified.
    - When bvh pelvis is reversed, lab pelvis is modified in order to be reversed too.

    Practically the skeleton after animation is different from the base skeleton, so a pose saved for the former will not work for the latter. It's complex to fix.
    My open source Blender addon to create 3D humans: www.manuelbastioni.com



  10. #930
    Member Manuel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bob Morane View Post
    The IK rig is (IIUC and from what i see) not entirely complete yet.
    I have still to add the twist controllers for hands and feet, but the rest is complete (except controls of face, that's a separate and more complex thing). Do you notice something else that's missed?

    However when i create a character with IK rig, no other rig is visible. Even on skeleton layers 1 and 3 (hidden by default)
    There are:

    - only IK
    - only muscles
    - IK + muscle

    If you use the only IK, the basic skeleton is on hidden armature layer 2. You need x-ray to see it through the body. If you use the IK + muscle , the basic skeleton is on armature layer 1 (hidden), the controls are on armature layer 2 and the muscles are on armature layer 3 (hidden). I will use the same layers for both the structures in lab 1.6.1.


    Similarly, if i select only the muscle bones i don't see the basic skeleton.
    Because it's not x-ray? The base skeleton is on a visible layer in muscle-only structure.


    However i don't think i'm supposed to directly touch the muscle bones do i? I suppose they are controlled by the normal bones and "simply" influence the mesh deformation so it's more natural, but they don't control the pose and i have to use the old bones to pose the figure, even thought they are hidden by default.
    The rigging "muscles-only" shows the basic skeleton. Posing the basic skeleton will control everything, pose and muscles. What do you mean with "old bones"?


    You might want to turn x-ray by default. Some of the IK bones can be lost inside the body with some poses (such as sitting) and as you probably see from the points above, it's confusing at first not seeing the bones you have to select to pose the figure.
    Right.

    Using custom bones shape would probably help. In addition it would help differentiate (IK) bones that should be rotated from those that can be dragged, and even help immediately know what some bones do (an eye shaped bone would probably be immediately recognized as the head target bone). I'm probably going to do this myself if i start doing something serious with the lab this time.
    I planned this as gradual improvement in future releases.
    The problem is that the lab should import additional meshes for this, and not everyone likes to have tens of unused object in production scene. Also these additional objects are annoying when someone wants to export the character in external engines. I have to handle it as an init option.

    [*]Having the bones that should be manipulated directly on the same layer as the IK bones would definitely help users a lot. As it is now, some normal bones don't have any effect if you try to manipulate them directly but you still need to manipulate others. This means you have to keep 2 layers visible and then guess which ones you have to directly rotate.
    Do you mean that IK and basic skeleton should be on the same layer?
    This will not help so much, since the basic skeleton is completely driven by the IK. I think you refer to a new feature: IK/FK switch. I want to add it too, in future.


    There is however one macro morph i'd like to request : eyes rotation. Currently (unless i missed something obvious) in order to turn the eyes left or right, one has to go to the shapekeys, find the "Expressions_eyesVert_min" and other similar morphs, guess where min and max go and use those. It's not very convenient for something that's quite a basic task.
    OK


    Even better would be the ability to control eyes rotation with some helper bones, by moving a target object. I've read the discussion about face bones and the pros and cons of various approaches and i think it's possible to get the best of all worlds with an additional option. Having an optional rig (there's already 2 now) adding bones that control drivers to morphs would allow the ease of control of bones, with the precision of morphs. The reason i say "optional" is as you said, this would only work for models that stay in Blender. By making this an option you wouldn't add distracting features for artists who plan to export the models, but those who want to use them inside Blender for stills/animations would be able to use them.
    This needs feasibility study. Also because in future I want to add an expression system based on bones only.

    If the morphs list grows..
    Do you notice some basic expressions missed?
    My open source Blender addon to create 3D humans: www.manuelbastioni.com



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