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  1. #1841
    Originally Posted by GogoDisco View Post
    I like modern UI / GUI but the new mockup slider handle is too minimalistic.

    I'm new to Blender's "sunken" slider style but have grown to see its value in daily workflow. For new eyes or aging eyes, function obviousness and "grab-ability" is always valued, I reckon...

    (please correct if this noob missed an obvious existing capability)

    What would be valuable addition to current numeric field, two HUGE CLICK-SAVERS:

    - MOUSE HOVER on slider area to scroll wheel SHIFT VALUE.
    Hold down Modifier/Sticky key plus roll scroll wheel to do default step increments. For Wacom users, then modifier key plus Blender's typical mouse hover gesture left right. Imagine how much load that will reduce on our hand and wrist!

    MORE PRECISE STEP INCREMENT can be set in context menu per input category. This alone will save up to 60-70% clicks per session.


    - RESET single/ all numeric field - on the quick.
    Either use obvious conventional universal RESET BUTTONS, or do like Maya/ Daz Studio, hold down a modifier/ sticky key + Action Mouse click on the slider handle or value name, to reset value to default. No manually entering zero with 3 clicks for input with non-zero default values. No right click, dart eyes over big context menu to find Reset text line, click. This reduces redundant clicks between 50 to 80%! Big deal!

    IMO these are 2 of modern function of numeric value input field interactivity, still absent from Blender 2017. Hope to see it in 2.8 (or haha 2.79.a)

    Thanks for considering...

    Attachment 501569
    I don't see the second idea, it add a lot of noise to the layout to reduce one click.



  2. #1842
    Member GogoDisco's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DcVertice View Post
    I don't see the second idea, it add a lot of noise to the layout to reduce one click.
    It is not reducing "one" click. It is reducing 100-200 clicks per typical rigging sessions.

    Reseting every single channel is 2 clicks. Think - how many times we reset something per session?

    How many times does one reset numeric input fields per session - modifiers, constraints, transforms, render settings PER session?

    Say a one hour session = 100 clicks alone on numeric values resets. Having reset button saves half to 80% of clicks. How many clicks is that?

    It doesn't take great imagination to grasp - the typical learners and noobs reset numeric values 300 clicks per session, because of tests and trials and errors. Have mercy on them. Even the Blender experts who know exactly what specific values to type in, would have to reset very often - more often than the lock/ unlock "clutter" button? How often do people use lock/ unlock? How often everyone - rigger/ skinner/ modeler/ renderer use reset button? Saving 100 to 200 clicks per long session is no big deal? Seriously? lol

    Modernize on the speedy workflow fundamentals is an ongoing thing. I like the lock/ unlock glide in one stroke motion btw. Very intuitive. Hope to see Reset function get exposed - if not button, at least a modifier key. Right now we can't even set hotkey to it.
    Solo artist & intermediate CG generalist. Speaks fluent ZBrush Daz iClone Carrara. Win10 VR-ready system



  3. #1843
    Originally Posted by DcVertice View Post
    I don't see the second idea, it add a lot of noise to the layout to reduce one click.
    perhaps one could hit X or R while hovering over a numeric field to reset it?!



  4. #1844
    Member GogoDisco's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kynu View Post
    perhaps one could hit X or R while hovering over a numeric field to reset it?!
    I would settle for this, possibly the most efficient. Alternatively, Alt Click on numeric field. Alt is currently not used I think.

    And btw, I just discovered, it is already possible to used Ctrl, Shift, Ctrl-Shift, Action Mouse Button to do the following in numeric fields.

    - shift values
    - shift values in step increment (for Transforms according to your grid Snap setting) or sub values for the rest.
    - sort of zero-ing value - if zero is the default value.


    But yes, mouse hover and gestures are super cool and efficient. CG is so click-intensive, the less impact on wrist and fingers, the better!
    Solo artist & intermediate CG generalist. Speaks fluent ZBrush Daz iClone Carrara. Win10 VR-ready system



  5. #1845
    Member pitiwazou's Avatar
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    Alt is used to edit settings for several objects.



  6. #1846
    Originally Posted by GogoDisco View Post
    It is not reducing "one" click. It is reducing 100-200 clicks per typical rigging sessions.

    Reseting every single channel is 2 clicks. Think - how many times we reset something per session?

    How many times does one reset numeric input fields per session - modifiers, constraints, transforms, render settings PER session?

    Say a one hour session = 100 clicks alone on numeric values resets. Having reset button saves half to 80% of clicks. How many clicks is that?

    It doesn't take great imagination to grasp - the typical learners and noobs reset numeric values 300 clicks per session, because of tests and trials and errors. Have mercy on them. Even the Blender experts who know exactly what specific values to type in, would have to reset very often - more often than the lock/ unlock "clutter" button? How often do people use lock/ unlock? How often everyone - rigger/ skinner/ modeler/ renderer use reset button? Saving 100 to 200 clicks per long session is no big deal? Seriously? lol

    Modernize on the speedy workflow fundamentals is an ongoing thing. I like the lock/ unlock glide in one stroke motion btw. Very intuitive. Hope to see Reset function get exposed - if not button, at least a modifier key. Right now we can't even set hotkey to it.
    for a rigger I understand the problem, but for other people the interface is really hard to see if you add a new button to all sliders. But for example a shortcut to reset the button or list value is good for me.

    Also a X when you put the mouse over the slider, like in new software, is a good solution also.



  7. #1847
    Originally Posted by DcVertice View Post
    for a rigger I understand the problem, but for other people the interface is really hard to see if you add a new button to all sliders. But for example a shortcut to reset the button or list value is good for me.

    Also a X when you put the mouse over the slider, like in new software, is a good solution also.
    The main issue, I quite often have with Blender is that there is a lot of hidden functionality. There are so many valuable features I don't know about because they are hidden within short cuts. Having short cuts is great, but if you are not aware that a certain functionality exists at all, they are worth nothing.
    This reset button is certainly not going to be added, but I strongly believe that this would benefit a lot of users if the UI was more like that.



  8. #1848
    Originally Posted by Dantus View Post
    The main issue, I quite often have with Blender is that there is a lot of hidden functionality. There are so many valuable features I don't know about because they are hidden within short cuts. Having short cuts is great, but if you are not aware that a certain functionality exists at all, they are worth nothing.
    This reset button is certainly not going to be added, but I strongly believe that this would benefit a lot of users if the UI was more like that.
    Well, buta shortcut in this case is not a hidden feature. When you pick in the value with right click and see "reset value" and a shortcut next to it.



  9. #1849
    Member Hadriscus's Avatar
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    X over the slider to reset would be nice indeed !



  10. #1850
    Originally Posted by DcVertice View Post
    Well, buta shortcut in this case is not a hidden feature. When you pick in the value with right click and see "reset value" and a shortcut next to it.
    I personally almost never read the descriptions. And if I do, I usually forget the shortcuts, because I am really bad at learning by heart. This would certainly improve my workflow, because it would make the functionality very obvious and intuitive to me.



  11. #1851
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    it will also be nice to easily set same value for three number fields - rgb values,uv scale,object xyz scale etc.



  12. #1852
    Originally Posted by Remade View Post
    it will also be nice to easily set same value for three number fields - rgb values,uv scale,object xyz scale etc.
    We can already do that, see Multi-Value Editing in the manual.
    Competition is great and fun for things like sports and games. For more serious matters cooperation might be a better approach.

    It is time - ecogood.org



  13. #1853
    I understand the desire to reduce clicks and/or make the UI more intuitive, as I've certainly been surprised at the features I never knew were present in Blender because they seemed hidden behind shortcuts. However, there's a balance to reach with how much is featured in the UI, and how much relies on hotkeys.

    If too many elements are added to the UI, you get something really cluttered (a la what Modo feels like to me compared to Blender), that actually promotes more clicking when learning the software, rather than quickly learning the hotkey because accomplishing something relies on the user knowing it. The issue is adapting the UX so that the hotkeys are presented in an intuitive way, so that they are easy to learn. Outside of documentation, this seems like a tough problem to solve.

    As for adding visual elements/buttons to the UI, I'm sure there are many quality of life things that different people want added that would drastically improve their workflow. The developers just have to deal with the hierarchy of which features are more important for everyone to have, rather than those that would help out individual riggers/animators/so on and so forth.

    I did see (maybe in this thread) a while ago that part of the 2.8 release will be revamping the default keymap. I think a lot of it is really good as it is, but done right, this could go a long way to making Blender usage better overall as well. Anyone have any confirmation on plans to change the keymap in the near future?



  14. #1854
    Originally Posted by SterlingRoth View Post
    Does anyone know if the windows buildbot is down?

    No new 2.8 builds for the past couple days
    Itís looking like it. Everything else looks like a couple days behind too.



  15. #1855
    Originally Posted by Remade View Post
    it will also be nice to easily set same value for three number fields - rgb values,uv scale,object xyz scale etc.
    You can do it, only click in the top field and move the cursor above the three fields. THen when you edit the first value the same go to the others.



  16. #1856
    Originally Posted by GogoDisco View Post
    I would settle for this, possibly the most efficient. Alternatively, Alt Click on numeric field. Alt is currently not used I think.

    And btw, I just discovered, it is already possible to used Ctrl, Shift, Ctrl-Shift, Action Mouse Button to do the following in numeric fields.

    - shift values
    - shift values in step increment (for Transforms according to your grid Snap setting) or sub values for the rest.
    - sort of zero-ing value - if zero is the default value.


    But yes, mouse hover and gestures are super cool and efficient. CG is so click-intensive, the less impact on wrist and fingers, the better!
    In most DAWs, you can reset parameters in the UI and plugins by using something like Cmd-Click on Mac or Alt-click on PC. I think either of those is the best way to go instead of doing a button.



  17. #1857
    Member GogoDisco's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses guys and gals. Don't let a mere Reset button/ hotkey request from a noob detract us from the bigger 2.8 picture!

    I'm also excited that the Outliner is getting a major face lift. Any users who deal with rigs frequently - characters or mechanical rigs - will really benefit from a more robust Outliner. I've been making notes about what could be improved. Takes more work sessions to get a feel of priorities...

    It's true that Blender has a lot of buried gems and I keep discovering them everyday. Which ones to expose and made button (or be given a hotkey status), depending on your usage needs.

    Anywayz, back to the tabs brought up a few pages ago - I noted new Modeling/ Animation/ Painting etc etc tabs. Shading got a different tab from Render. I suppose Weight/ Rigging will be done in Animation tab? Or will we make our own tabs? Is that what's been referred to as 'Work Spaces"? Interesting... Like to hear existing users opinions!
    Last edited by GogoDisco; 13-Oct-17 at 09:22.
    Solo artist & intermediate CG generalist. Speaks fluent ZBrush Daz iClone Carrara. Win10 VR-ready system



  18. #1858
    Originally Posted by GogoDisco View Post
    It's true that Blender has a lot of buried gems and I keep discovering them everyday.
    So true! I watch a lot of tutorials on fast forward just because occasionally there will be some incredible time-saving shortcut that I didn't know about just casually used in it. For example, I've been using Blender for around 2 years and until recently, I didn't know you could press 'gg' to do edge or vertex slide instead of using the slide shortcuts. I also found that you can slide past the end of an edge but keep aligned to it if you then press 'c' thanks to pitiwazou's twitter tips. The latter is printed in the tool help at the bottom of the Blender UI, but I just never noticed it.



  19. #1859
    Member GogoDisco's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr_Flamey View Post
    The latter is printed in the tool help at the bottom of the Blender UI, but I just never noticed it.
    Many new-ish goodies aren't mentioned in the official manual. I found out tons of "huh? Blender can do that?" in User Preferences> Input, and of course those mystery special goodies hiding inside secret access hotkeys be that W or spacebar or Ctrl C in Pose mode. lol

    An alternative way of learning Blender is combing through the default hotkey section.

    I like where 2.8 dev is going with the education bit. The latest "Collection" infographical tut, for example, is the way to go.

    2.8 will be a radical change. A lot of tutorials/ tips/ workarounds will become obsolete (and require lots of unlearning). Still, I'm glad to jump in at 2.79, to get a sense of legacy behavior and participate in this Great Transition!
    Last edited by GogoDisco; 13-Oct-17 at 22:18.
    Solo artist & intermediate CG generalist. Speaks fluent ZBrush Daz iClone Carrara. Win10 VR-ready system



  20. #1860
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    thanks DcVertice,that works.



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