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  1. #3641
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DcVertice View Post
    By other hand, it's surprising two things, that now BF needs to change all blender interface to make easy the life of new users. When in ten years they didn't want to change the only petition of users, left click by default, with a variety of excuses, such as to avoid the carpal tunnel problem... And now they want to change everything in the interface and to make a interface like iOS, change behaviour of the tools, manipulators,... without take in consideration any feedback of the community. Like we told weeks before, the new design don't adress the main problems of users and talk a lot about things that nobody see a problem before. One example is the workbench, that if you see the to-do list it doesn't appear to have a big planning before. I had to remember that a new retopology mode could be good when it is the main problem of actual viewport.

    And like marco tells It's frustrating to see that they have various devs (William, Pablo, Campbell, Julien) only to make improvements in the UI that was revamped few time ago when in 4-5 years we have seen near to zero improvements in critical features like sculpt, modeling, particles, UVs,... Maybe it have a explanation like is a donation of a third party company, but from a user pov is hard to understand.
    Sorry to bulletpoint this, but...

    • This completely ignores what Brecht just wrote (ie. just some visual and conceptual experiments that aren't part of the actual design doc.)
    • This ignores Bmesh and the many improvements and new tools done because of it
    • This ignores Psy-Fi's GSoC improvements for the UV editor and more recent Dyntopo improvements by Campbell
    • This possibly ignores other major developments because the list of supposed abandoned areas is not complete

    If we want to have a productive discussion, then we must indicate that we have read the posts made since our last reply.
    Last edited by Ace Dragon; 22-Apr-18 at 17:41.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



  2. #3642
    Originally Posted by DcVertice View Post
    By other hand, it's surprising two things, that now BF needs to change all blender interface to make easy the life of new users. When in ten years they didn't want to change the only petition of users, left click by default, with a variety of excuses, such as to avoid the carpal tunnel problem... And now they want to change everything in the interface and to make a interface like iOS, change behaviour of the tools, manipulators,... without take in consideration any feedback of the community. Like we told weeks before, the new design don't adress the main problems of users and talk a lot about things that nobody see a problem before. One example is the workbench, that if you see the to-do list it doesn't appear to have a big planning before. I had to remember that a new retopology mode could be good when it is the main problem of actual viewport.
    As mentioned by Brecht, they are playing around with designs during the weekend. It is not actively being worked on. This is very likely the reason why they are also not replying to any community feedback at this point.
    Manipulators have been discussed for a long time and they are objectively a good idea, because directly modifying something in the viewport compared to doing it somewhere else is better on several levels.

    Originally Posted by DcVertice View Post
    And like marco tells It's frustrating to see that they have various devs (William, Pablo, Campbell, Julien) only to make improvements in the UI that was revamped few time ago when in 4-5 years we have seen near to zero improvements in critical features like sculpt, modeling, particles, UVs,... Maybe it have a explanation like is a donation of a third party company, but from a user pov is hard to understand.
    William and Pablo are both not developers!



  3. #3643
    Member pitiwazou's Avatar
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    I also hope that when 2.8 will be done, they will work on core features that need to be updated.
    I'm pretty sure it's on the todo list.
    So, let's finish this 2.8 and will see, but yes, I really hope they will work on core features like they did on the grease pencil, this is so awesome, imagine if they do something like that on the sculpt part, painting part etc.

    Even if we complain a lot, we know that devs do great work and 2.8 will be really great!



  4. #3644
    Originally Posted by Ace Dragon View Post
    Sorry to bulletpoint this, but...

    • This completely ignores what Brecht just wrote (ie. just some visual and conceptual experiments that aren't part of the actual design doc.)
    • This ignores Bmesh and the many improvements and new tools done because of it
    • This ignores Psy-Fi's GSoC improvements for the UV editor and more recent Dyntopo improvements by Campbell
    • This possibly ignores other major developments because the list of supposed abandoned areas is not complete

    Seriously, the idea of continually producing personal narratives and sticking with it (while ignoring the history of Blender as an app. and what everyone else says) is perhaps the single least productive road to take when it comes to discussion and feedback.
    Only you ignore the reality.

    - I talk about actual documents that developers put in the official threads.
    - Bmesh have 5-6 years at least (2012)
    - Psy-Fi GSOC have 6-7 years (2011)
    - Dyntopo have 4-5 years (2013)

    It's not a personal narrative, you only need to look a calendar. Maybe you don't know, but it's 2018.



  5. #3645
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    working day has 8 working hours all else is free time respect that, depending on country there's ~ 40 ~ 43 working hours in a week and a day off... either pay for overtime or it's illegal
    Last edited by burnin; 22-Apr-18 at 18:53.



  6. #3646
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DcVertice View Post
    Only you ignore the reality.

    - I talk about actual documents that developers put in the official threads.
    - Bmesh have 5-6 years at least (2012)
    - Psy-Fi GSOC have 6-7 years (2011)
    - Dyntopo have 4-5 years (2013)

    It's not a personal narrative, you only need to look a calendar. Maybe you don't know, but it's 2018.
    So what did Brecht say on the previous page? Did Brecht give any indication that the design mockups just posted were final?

    Are you sure that modeling has seen near-zero development for 4 years (because I've seen plenty of enhancements come in over the 2.7x period)?

    What about the bundled addons, should they not count towards development even though they are there for anyone to use (it also includes that tool suite for UV editing known as Magic UV)?

    What about the critical areas that were claimed to see near-zero development? In 2.8 already, we've seen a lot of work on tackling areas that we would call critical such as basic viewport drawing, depsgraph, and animation. Work on redoing the modifier system is also happening and even the hair system saw some long awaited improvements from the old Gooseberry branch.

    2.8's development in general is on turbo now, and if that's not enough, then I can't say if anything the BF ever does in the future will satisfy.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



  7. #3647
    Member cekuhnen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ambi View Post
    I personally really like the new design, FWIW. I think it's a significant improvement. Only thing I don't like is the toggle buttons.
    visually it looks more modern if one wants to call it that way but the shown examples makes clear that the current new design has a lack of contrast which makes seeing UI elements actually harder.

    I think this stems from white text on darker background while the older UI uses the opposite contrast.

    Everybody familiar with color contrast should know that white text on a dark background visually shrinks and is harder to read thus you need to compensate which I am sure they will do given that this is all work in progress.
    3D Design Generalist - Faculty Industrial + Interior Design
    Chair Interior Design - Wayne State University



  8. #3648
    Member Harley's Avatar
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    This is probably just stating the obvious, but some comments have been made about William's design being "too dark". The colors and the contrast aren't really the *design* that he is presenting at all. The following mockup shows the current design with three color variations of William's design. So if you feel that one of the variations is somehow better than the others then you are looking at it incorrectly. They are all the same as far as his design is concerned.


    william.jpg



  9. #3649
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    Originally Posted by Harley View Post
    This is probably just stating the obvious, but some comments have been made about William's design being "too dark". The colors and the contrast aren't really the *design* that he is presenting at all. The following mockup shows the current design with three color variations of William's design. So if you feel that one of the variations is somehow better than the others then you are looking at it incorrectly. They are all the same as far as his design is concerned.


    william.jpg
    Well, IMO, none of them equals the current one in clarity, we could get used to them, but why?

    paolo



  10. #3650
    Member renderhjs's Avatar
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    My feedback to the latest update of the design proposal:



    I think that line flow or being able to display grids / tables is really important especially with Materials that expose 20+ parameters underneath each other or for object listings. So my suggestion would be to use thin lines in between where UI elements are 'align=True'.



  11. #3651
    Its a bit silly to hear 1980s delusions about desing being alive in 2018 - "too much wasted space" , "need more icons!" "can someone think of the noobies!!!"

    This new design is nice to eyes, slighty more compact and organized - whats not to love?

    Post your mockups\revisions, its not that hard. Almosty like its not an artist forum or something.



  12. #3652
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    Originally Posted by renderhjs View Post
    My feedback to the latest update of the design proposal:



    I think that line flow or being able to display grids / tables is really important especially with Materials that expose 20+ parameters underneath each other or for object listings. So my suggestion would be to use thin lines in between where UI elements are 'align=True'.
    Completely agree with this suggestion, I think William did reply to a comment about this being taken care of.

    The color scheme doesn't really matter as we will end up with a gazillion color mods as it's currently the case.

    PS. I just noticed the frame rate dropdown is off the grid, I hope is just a mockup error.
    Last edited by jpthrash; 23-Apr-18 at 01:54.
    Sr.Env Artist @ CDPR | artstation



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