Thoughts on Blender Game Engine

First time here, people.
I’m not familiar with BGE at all. However, I’m very familiar with Blender when it comes to 3D modeling.
Sooo, without further ado here are my questions about BGE:

My understanding is that BGE can’t serve as a good platform for building games that would succeed commercially, but it serves really good for rapid prototyping before transferring assets to another more powerful game engines like Unity or Unreal Engine, is this true?

How much is BGE outdated?

Is BGE hard, medium or easy to learn?

I’ve heard that BGE has node based system for game logic, but scripting can break the barriers/limitations of that system, is that true?

And last but not least, is it worth it, learning BGE at this time and age?

How much is BGE outdated?
This may give you some idea of the bge limitations.
https://mogurijin.wordpress.com/category/bge/
Is BGE hard, medium or easy to learn?
The bge is easy to me.
I’ve heard that BGE has node based system for game logic, but scripting can break the barriers/limitations of that system, is that true?The bge has logic bricks but with python a lot more can be done.

And last but not least, is it worth it, learning BGE at this time and age?
I think it is worth it to learn how to a videogame.

Just wait till armoury engine comes out. It should be be released any time now and it will completely revolutionise the BGE. It will make it a AAA level engine.

Thanks Lotscience, I’m really glad you answered all of my questions. You’re of real help and there’s a ton of stuff to read in that article you provided me with it’s really complicated but I think I can get a hang of it (not).
Nicholas, as far as I’m concerned I won’t wait for anything. Armory engine is nice and all but I think I’ll still give BGE a try for the moment.

I forgot to mention the upbge.It is better than the bge.And it has logic bricks to.Here is the link for it.https://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?387752-A-new-fork-of-the-engine
You need the last version.If you are going to use it.

Thanks man, really appreciate it. It’s gonna take some time until I get a hang of python, c++, Blenders API, rigging, animation, lighting and BGE workflow, so in the mean time I’ll be busy.

UPBGE and Armory Engine are really nice, but I think we all know that it’s really important to know how things functions and what drives them rather then waiting for something new to pop up that we think will solve all of our problems.

See ya all next year, maybe.

My understanding is that BGE can’t serve as a good platform for building games that would succeed commercially

Answer:
That depends on how competent the developer is. If they’re not competent, then their games would turn out badly.

Is BGE hard, medium or easy to learn?

Answer:
It’s hard to learn at first but with patience and time, you can learn it well enough to make your first functioning game.

I’ve heard that BGE has node based system for game logic, but scripting can break the barriers/limitations of that system, is that true?

Answer:
Yes, that’s true.

And last but not least, is it worth it, learning BGE at this time and age?

Answer:
Optimistically, yes if you’re the type of person who likes to wrestle with the game engine they’re using. Realistically, no since at this time and age it is way better to learn and use Unity to develop games. Unity is a great engine to use especially if you want to go indie.

I want to thank you guys for help, especially Lostscience. I didn’t think that BGE could be used as a platform for real game development and distribution but more as a testing ground for how animations work in a prototype game environment and other basic stuff. Because we all know that games consists of much more than quality of ones animation and mechanics, here’s what I thought/imagined BGE was actually good for:

And yeah I know that Unity has a interactive bridge with Blender when it comes to importing assets meaning the changes in on certain objects in Blender are affected/updated real time in Unity.
But in my subjective, completely inexperienced and unprofessional opinion it would be a much idea to first test most of general stuff in Blender before importing it to Unity or any other Game Engine, no?

Actually Gameloft and Ubisoft uses Unity for prototyping and then, their own engines for the “real games”. :slight_smile: I know this because many of my ex-colleagues are working in those companies.
This has been said many times - what engine you should use depends only of what you want to do and for what time span.
If you want to do "next-gen graphics use Unreal, if you want to do a decent game for a short time, use whatever engine you want as far as you have the skills to do it. :slight_smile:
Blender GE is more than capable of publishing “real games” as long as your definition of real games is not “DOOM” or “The Witcher 3” :stuck_out_tongue:

PS. Not sure about The Witcher 3 though :smiley: :
Here it is on low settings:


I think, BGE can do The Witcher 3 at least at medium settings :smiley:
So the bottom line is - “It is not the engine that matters, it is your own skills.” :wink:

True !!! Absolutely guys…

I think if you’re serious about game making you shouldn’t be using blender, even the updated blender game engine would be years behind unreal and unity. Unreal engine also has blueprints which can completely replace traditional programming enabling you to just concentrate on creating assets and the game itself. I know a guy who in less than a month got a decent game up and running in Unreal engine. A lot of features are built into the unreal engine too, you can create clickable menus, display letter by letter text etc.

try bge, godot, unity and unreal, bdx etc

find what fits you best.

I am a UP_BGE user myself, but the engine is a means to an end,
find which one grows on you.

Serious games == Unreal + C++ at least 3-5 years of experience+ 3-5 years of 3d modeling experience == Unity+ C# at least 3-5 years of experience + at least 3-5 years of 3d modeling experience + alot of professionals + alot of $$$.

you can create clickable menus, display letter by letter text

Do you really think that this will save your project?! :slight_smile:
Only years of experience and alot of money and a great team and marketing will help you do a “serious game”.
Otherwise just use any other engine and do what you can with it.
I have only 9 years of experience in the game industry, it is not much, but believe me, one-two-ten man team can not do “serious game”, serious games are done with money and hundreds of people. Engine is the least that matters.

Actually in my case it would save my project, I wouldn’t have to depend on a programmer. In a sense even kid friendly game engines like the rpg maker programs are better game engines than blender’s game engine.

A good game engine makes it as easy as possible for people to create games. One of the reasons unreal is so popular is because of the blueprints, it’s community would be more or less dead if there were no blueprints. I’m not a programmer and on numerous occassions I’ve “complained” or voiced my opinion on how if the blender game engine wants to become popular it shouldn’t try to update it’s graphical capabilities but concentrate on making the game engine actually user friendly.

A person should be able to open up the logic bricks and in an evening have a character jump around. In a few days it should be possible to design a menu for your characters on which his levels and experience should be displayed. Battle systems, jumping, health bars, advanced camera controls, all these features would come WITH the game engine ready to be tinkered with. A person shouldn’t have to create them from scratch.

Unreal has many of those features easily accessible, unity too I’m sure. If they don’t come with the engine there are places where you can download all that stuff as a plugin. Documentation, instructions and more often than not quite easy to wrap your head around. Blender doesn’t hold you hand, something as simple as having a character run around and the camera tracking him correctly, detecting collisions etc etc. I mean why isn’t there a box that can be checked if you want the camera to detect collisions. Pretty basic features that any good game engine would need. Concentrate on those features and stop obsessing about the fancy rendering capabilities, it’s nice but what’s even nicer is 5 million new users, could you imagine how active this forum would be.

@Leinadien:
The quality of a game engine is not solely dependant on how easy it is to use. That is simply a factor. It is a combination of:

  • ease of use
  • availability of documentation
  • performance
  • extensibility
    You could have a game engine that you can learn in an afternoon, but if it isn’t documented at all, or the performance is abysmal, or you can’t add your own stuff to it, then it is useless.
    It is a common fallacy that you can make a game without being a programmer. This is simply false. At some stage, you have to program something unless you are trying to make a mod for an existing game. Even blueprints is a form of programming, though one that I’m not a fan of. Another common issue is that a game engine needs lots of presets (such as your example of healthbars) to be good. But something like 90% of games won’t have health-bars. Probably 99% of the preset “features” would go unused in any given game. It just adds to the download size of the engine and the complexity to maintain it. Ever notice that Unity is over a gigabyte but blender in it’s entirety is around 100mb, game engine, professional level modelling and rendering tools…

A person shouldn’t have to create them from scratch.

I’m curious as to where you get this idea that you should or shouldn’t have to do certain things. Are you expecting other people to do work for you? As the number of “indie game makers” grow, more and more seem to expect to be able to take freely available models, use engine presets, and make games that will sell well.
Get used to doing things yourself. If you ever go into industry as any sort of developer, you’ll have to be able to “create them from scratch”

I’m not a programmer I’m not expected to do that stuff, that’s the programmer’s job. In the “industry” they sometimes hire programmers to modify the game engine they’re working on to make it easier for everyone that isn’t a programmer to actually create the game. If you take a team of a hundred people, most of those people don’t program health bars or camera collisions. They’re busy actually creating the game.

Look at Skyrim for example, when they noticed how popular modding is for Skyrim they released the program they used to design the game. This program is more akin to a RPG maker program or a level editor than something like Unreal’s blueprints or any kind of programming. That’s the tools programmers design FOR the artists. I hope you’re not under the illusion that all those AAA games were created by a bunch of programmers, the tools were made by programmers for the artists.

My point has always been that, let’s face it blender’s game engine is never going to compare to unreal or unity. So let’s increase it’s popularity by creating “kits” or implement features into the game engine that makes it easier for people who aren’t into creating health bars to actually create some good looking games. A good game is hours long, how many of those hours do you spend looking at the health bar or at the gun shooting or at how the camera is setup. You barely look at it, what matters in a good game is story, graphics, music that’s what makes good games interesting to play, not jumping on boxes.

For example look at Mass Effect, remove the story, the graphics and just have the player shoot at stuff. Nobody would spend 10 minutes on it. Design the game engine to be so easy to use that professonal artists can pick it up and create games in it without a programmers working for them and you would see a lot of more quality games coming from the blender game engine. A lot of you guys who have been around this forum for a long time are programmers and quite good at it, why not create very intuitive easy to read “game kits” for people who aren’t into messing with walk meshes and python scripts. That’s what you’ll be doing if you ever work in the industry, the actual game making is done by writers, artists and composers.

I’m not a programmer I’m not expected to do that stuff, that’s the programmer’s job. In the “industry” they sometimes hire programmers to modify the game engine they’re working on to make it easier for everyone that isn’t a programmer to actually create the game. If you take a team of a hundred people, most of those people don’t program health bars or camera collisions. They’re busy actually creating the game…

I think you are mistaking ready to use tools with ready to use assets on Unity store or Unreal blueprints. I have participated in a creation of 2 games with 90+ people working on them. Yes, programmers are creating tools for artists…but not the kind you think. Ofcourse health bars, stamina bars…or everything else is created from scratch by programmers in any serious game including Skyrim and Mass Effect.
What artists do is creating the art in that kind of games. Tools are for importing specific formats of objects,textures,messing around with some specific values of materials or auto-applying bones and animations to similar creatures and that kind of stuff. Nobody will let an artist to create or mess around with a healthbar functionality. Artists give the design of the UI to the programmers with all the 2d assets and programmers do the rest. Onces it is done, if there is a tool an artist can move/scale/change color…etc of the healthbar but not mess around with functionality.

For example look at Mass Effect, remove the story, the graphics and just have the player shoot at stuff. Nobody would spend 10 minutes on it.

That is called Game Design. That is what game designers do, not game artists or game programmers. It is a specific work and you have to have years of experience in game design if you want to design good games.

I think you are mistaking ready to use tools with ready to use assets on Unity store or Unreal blueprints. I have participated in a creation of 2 games with 90+ people working on them. Yes, programmers are creating tools for artists…but not the kind you think.

That’s because the artists don’t have to do any programming on serious game projects. What I’m saying is that to indie developers or I guess it would be more appropiate to call them indie artists, the blender game engine is useless due to how many years they would have to spend learning how to create the gameplay elements to match the graphics, story that they plan to create. What would bring millions of amateurs and professional artists to the game engine would be game kits, or in built features into the game engine like, enable camera collisions with a checkbox, fade the screen with a logic brick, some kind of system for tracking stats on screen, damage etc. If those things were already in the engine and didn’t need to be written by hand or if there was an easy to use game kit that could be modified with little effort we would see more games coming from the game engine.

It’s easy for everyone to call themseleves an artist, oh look I drew a cartoon. But the truth is, it takes just as many years to become great at creating graphics or being able to write a good story as it takes programming a game. The programmer can get away with a lot, for example I wouldn’t say Krum your game haidme is the best looking game ever made. If you had all the gameplay elements of your game released in a single blend file, documented and easy to use a professional artist would do 10 times better job. You might think, I spent so much time learning how to create this game, it’s only just that if you want to create a game in blender’s game engine you’ll have to learn everything from scratch like I did. You can think that, but that’s not how good games are ever made. In every great game you see coming out, none of the people who designed those games had to create the gameplay from scratch, they ordered the programmers to do that, not the other way around.

Make the game engine easier to use and make it more popular to use and that it can’t produce as good graphics as unreal wouldn’t matter. But make it as badly designed as it currently is and have the people rely on python to create more complicated systems and you’ll never become a good, serious game engine for indie game developers. Unreal and Unity will always be preferable.

That’s because the artists don’t have to do any programming on serious game projects.

Most serious games are made of large teams where they can afford to compartmentalize. I’s guess that 99% of indie games are 1-4 many teams where there may be some specialization, but everyone can do a little of everything.

Apparently you are a game artist and enjoy making game art. I am a game developer and enjoy making … games.
What does this mean? I enjoy the entire process from concept to storyboard to art to programming to sound design. Will any of my games ever make me money? I doubt it (considering I give them away, I really doubt it), but they do get made and can be somewhat fun to play. Specialization? I am more of a programmer really, but would go crazy if all I did was type code all day.

The indie dev market can be split into two parts:

  • Those who want to create mods
  • Those who want to create original games

You probably think UDK3 is a game engine. I consider it more of a FPS modding system. When your player character is made of a Z-aligned cylinder, it’s pretty clear it’s not a general purpose engine. The line isn’t as clear for others. Unity offers a whole heap of preset ‘games’ you can mod as much as you like. It also provides enough extensibility that I consider it an engine. It offers both worlds which is why it has become so popular.

What would bring millions of amateurs and professional artists to the game engine would be game kits, or in built features into the game engine like, enable camera collisions with a checkbox, fade the screen with a logic brick, some kind of system for tracking stats on screen, damage etc. If those things were already in the engine and didn’t need to be written by hand or if there was an easy to use game kit that could be modified with little effort we would see more games coming from the game engine.

For reference, fade the screen can be done with a plane and an animation and a logic brick, camera collision can be set up by parenting it to a rigid body. Each takes under 5 minutes to do. Tracking stats on screen is a highly subjective thing. What are stats? What is tracking? It differs hugely from game to game. Same for damage. How can you make things like that general purpose without making … a game for people to mod or without providing so many options as to confuse anyone trying to use it?

I once tried to figure out some general components that many games could use. It’s a much harder thing to do than you realize. If you want to design these systems that will be usable in, say, 50% of games, and will take a sensible amount of time to develop, let me know and I’ll do it.

It’s easy for everyone to call themseleves an artist, oh look I drew a cartoon. But the truth is, it takes just as many years to become great at creating graphics or being able to write a good story as it takes programming a game.

On a side note, I did draw a cartoon today.
Either generalize, and go and make flappy bird, minecraft etc. or specialize and go into industry in a big company. Those appear (to me) to be the two paths of game development these days. Or maybe go and contribute to an open source game project (such as empty-epsilon if you want to make some new space-ships for them I’m sure they’d appreciate it).
There is no shortage of games requiring art, and no shortage of art requiring games. The problem is they possibly aren’t the “game” you’re trying to make - so you’ll have to employ people, few people work for free unless you really inspire them.

I’ll just stop there. I’ve had this discussion before.

I once tried to figure out some general components that many games could use. It’s a much harder thing to do than you realize. If you want to design these systems that will be usable in, say, 50% of games, and will take a sensible amount of time to develop, let me know and I’ll do it.

Those would have to be designed after game genres. If you’re actually up for it I would happily let you know what an amateur programmer but a professional artist would be interested in using. Some time back I saw a couple of these game presets for the blender game engine and just out of curiosity I opened them up and a lot of uncessary features, a lot of clutter and stuff all over the screen.

A game kit shouldn’t try to push a game genre into something unique, the thing I looked at for example was a fps shooter kit in which you could zoom in and out the camera. From a first person to a third person view. Not really necessary, what if the guy wanted to just create a first person shooter or just create a third person shooter. It’s not always as simple as just deleting stuff and can often be confusing for people who aren’t programmers to re-purpose something like that into something more simple.

Here are the game genres kits could be created for:

•Platformer games
•Sidescroller games
•First person shooter games
•Fighting games
•Open world rpg games
•Linear rpg games
•Racing games

Strategy games might be too hard to create a kit for in my opinion. It would be best to design these kits into the most simple form of mentioned genres.

A platofmer kit would be a kit in which all the gameplay elements are done already. You’ve got save points, a main menu from which you can start a new game or load a new game. Decent control scheme modeled on something like Spyro the dragon, camera collision and very basic enemies that you can jump on. A health bar, being able to fade the screen to black by just activating a variable or sending a message. Everything documented in a nice text file. The content creator wouldn’t have to worry about anything, he could start working at the character, at the animations, at the levels and assets and at the script.

The most important thing in these game kits would have to be intuitevely designed and easily to be picked up and wrap your head around in less than an hour. The advanced programming wouldn’t have to be explained but something that you would think is simple, like how to replace the character’s model and animations or how to change the textures on the main menu that stuff would have to be explained in detail so the person, when it’s time to repurpose the game kit into a better looking game could just open up the text document and follow the instructions from point to point.

Same would have to be done for the other game genres, good thing is that if anybody would ever attempt to create these kits. Much could be reused, saving and loading for example, the main menus. The challenges would be the roleplaying games and the fighting games. Fighting games mainly because you’ll need an animated dummy and quite advanced AI. There’s an argument that a fighting game might be too much work. The rpg games might also be much work since you’ll have to create stats, a leveling up system and for the linear rpg games a battle system similar to final fantasy. Me and some other guy actually worked on this awhile back and we got quite far but were ultimately discouraged by the pre rendered backgrounds that appeared in the old JRPG games.

Anyway if you’re interested in creating any of these kits send me a pm and I’ll happily help you out, I could give you directions as to what a non programmer would be interested in using and create some assets that the kits could use. :rolleyes: