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  1. #201
    Originally Posted by LordOdin View Post
    Well under 100% load the computer with a 1700 is going to be using closer to 90 - 190 (190 at 4ghz) watts not 65 watts and that doesnt account for the GPU that each machine will need and the HDDs. If you use those pico PSU adapters you are losing 5 - 10% power due to efficiency of the step downs.. and at this point you are powering the 5v 3v and 12v off the 12v rail of the main PSU

    Power drop will be pretty serious when you have 3 computers in parallel on a single PSU you would need 1200 watts at least
    if you will have any GPU and HDD in these computers

    I was thinking more in a safe 3.7Ghz. That is 120 watts from the wall with HDD and RAM. 360 watts should be possible on a good 850w psu. Ryzen has built in GPU, it won't be used anyway with blender render.


    Right now ryzen 1700 is at 360€,the motherboard at 100€ and DDR4 memory at 100€. Three times that and it's expensive as hell. But in a production where you need speed and memory then a graphics card with 8-12gb memory won't cut it.

    My crazy thought would be to have three of them in one bigger case



  2. #202
    Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    Ryzen has built in GPU
    Not on current models yet, though.



  3. #203
    Originally Posted by s12a View Post
    Not on current models yet, though.
    Alright. Didn't know. I just assumed that the motherboards have hdmi that the ryzen has somekind of graphical unit inside it.



  4. #204


    No S/G (and "GX" ?) desktop models yet. Mobile cpus will likely come standard with an integrated graphics unit.
    Last edited by s12a; 16-Mar-17 at 18:55.



  5. #205
    Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    I was thinking more in a safe 3.7Ghz. That is 120 watts from the wall with HDD and RAM. 360 watts should be possible on a good 850w psu. Ryzen has built in GPU, it won't be used anyway with blender render.


    Right now ryzen 1700 is at 360€,the motherboard at 100€ and DDR4 memory at 100€. Three times that and it's expensive as hell. But in a production where you need speed and memory then a graphics card with 8-12gb memory won't cut it.

    My crazy thought would be to have three of them in one bigger case
    You are going to need to spend more than 100€ to get over 12 GB of DDR4. Also add about 40 more watts and 100€+ for a GPU on each of them.. after all that you could have bought used xeons with an insane amount of threads which would put your 3 makeshift computers to shame also have more ram and pci lanes lol CPU rendering is just slow..

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E...4AAOSwMmBV4gEd

    I have personally used 2 of these in a machine before and they are quick they beat a 1070 which the x1800 is far from doing..

    at this point you are saving hundreds of dollars. also instead of paying 300 dollars to put 16 GB of ram in 3 computers you could put 48 GB in this one. instead of paying 150 for 3 HDDs pay 50 for this one.. instead of 300+ for GPUs spend 150 for this one

    chrome_2017-03-17_08-17-40.png
    Last edited by LordOdin; 17-Mar-17 at 07:22.



  6. #206
    Originally Posted by LordOdin View Post
    You are going to need to spend more than 100€ to get over 12 GB of DDR4. Also add about 40 more watts and 100€+ for a GPU on each of them.. after all that you could have bought used xeons with an insane amount of threads which would put your 3 makeshift computers to shame also have more ram and pci lanes lol CPU rendering is just slow..

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E...4AAOSwMmBV4gEd

    I have personally used 2 of these in a machine before and they are quick they beat a 1070 which the x1800 is far from doing..
    25€ gpu is enough. Like the gt 710. In idle it's 5 watts.

    In sweden the 16gb ddr4 is 100€.

    Also buying used was not a part of my idea.

    I know 'used' xeons are cheaper but that is not possible for everyone to get hold off.

    I know it's expensive but things will get cheaper and maybe in 6 months Intel has made a faster and cheaper solution. This is the first time Intel had any competition in years.



  7. #207
    @Lordodin

    With a little more you get this:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z820-Work...YAAOSwTM5Ytdqb



  8. #208
    Originally Posted by ant-gr View Post
    @Lordodin

    With a little more you get this:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z820-Work...YAAOSwTM5Ytdqb
    And that has 24 less threads....



  9. #209
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    not to mention that HP is an attention seeker - loves to be serviced

    @ present, Ryzen is best bang for buck, 8cores in every household - finally development can go further with optimizing for multithreading, multitasking... smart houses and so on... boards that will be functional for next few gen.

    Developers shine on!
    Last edited by burnin; 17-Mar-17 at 18:15.



  10. #210
    Originally Posted by burnin View Post
    8cores in every household - finally development can go further with optimizing for multithreading, multitasking... smart houses and so on... boards that will be functional for next few gen.
    That actually changes nothing. If multithreading makes sense, it makes sense on 2,4,6 or 8+ cores. If not, then not. Mobile chips have had up to 8 cores for years.

    Same for SIMD, which could ideally quadruple performance (or better). If it doesn't make sense, it's not getting used. Developers need more convenience (i.e. smarter compilers and better abstractions), not better hardware.



  11. #211
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    True, to some point, enjoy your opinion... tho IMO, the efficiency gap wasn't as big as it is now.
    ie. 3DSmax still is on single threaded boolean operations... same goes to many more

    Just being optimistic - Not going OT anymore.



  12. #212
    Originally Posted by burnin View Post
    True, to some point, enjoy your opinion... tho IMO, the efficiency gap wasn't as big as it is now.
    What gap? The gap between a single-threaded solution and a hypothetical multi-threaded solution that doesn't exist?

    I get your point of course, the incentive to invest into multiple threads is supposedly bigger now, when everyone has so many cores. I just don't think it makes much of a difference. Everything that was easy to parallelize, is already parallel, and people immediately benefit from having 8 cores.

    ie. 3DSmax still is on single threaded boolean operations... same goes to many more
    Good example! Those people using 3DSMax may have had dual-CPU rigs with 8+ cores for a while. Still the entire application locks up with many operations (just like Blender) and many operations are serial. This could be done better, but that would be expensive and risky.

    Development usually stops at "good enough for now", which ends up becoming "good enough forever" and "don't fix what ain't broken". A decade passes by, it's 2017 and people run 20+ core workstations, yet it doesn't seem to make a difference, even though those are the people with money to spend - not the low-end customers that are happy to have an 8-core for 320$!

    Just being optimistic.
    Yeah, don't.



  13. #213
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    ayayay i was under the impression you understand the definition of efficiency
    also multitasking - gaming, streaming and encoding fluently is becoming reality for many more now
    also lower power consumption
    also lower investment
    also longer support, more life time expectancy
    ...

    majority stops at good enough, is simply lame & no argument whatsoever
    minority runs 20+ cores & even those users can't utilize their full potential, because they are the minority thus irrelevant on the global market

    being optimistic because it's now easier to see where to profit & gain momentum for the economic growth
    "Even A Blind Chicken Finds A Kernel."

    Go grab a beer. Contemplate on the bubble.



  14. #214
    Originally Posted by burnin View Post
    also lower power consumption
    also lower investment
    also longer support, more life time expectancy
    I don't understand what this has to do with having more cores. Using more cores means using more power. Using 2x the cores at only (for example) 1.8x speedup is less power efficient (but faster) than using just one core. On the other hand, higher clockrates may be less power-efficient as well.

    majority stops at good enough, is simply lame & no argument whatsoever
    It's not an argument, it's an observation of reality. I'm not saying that's how it should be, that's how it is, quite obviously. In software development, you're lucky if the budget lasts until good enough.

    There's no technical reason why Blender or 3DSMax have to lock up while performing certain tasks. It really is lame. But it's good enough, so it goes a long way.

    In order to fix that (using multi-threading), you'll have to bring in a lot of very error-prone re-architecturing. It's not worth it from the software vendors view, so it's not happening.

    minority runs 20+ cores & even those users can't utilize their full potential, because they are the minority thus irrelevant on the global market
    It's actually "the majority" that is irrelevant, unless we're talking about the market for ad revenue from people watching cat videos on YouTube. Those people aren't in the market for Ryzen 7 CPUs, either. For many (or most) industries, the money is in a very specific and often very small audience. Who cares if your grandmother has 8 cores, if she's not an industry professional with money to spend (or to be spent on)?

    If you pay thousands of dollars on some DCC app, you'll also pay good money on a workstation - and you are a part of a *very* small (but lucrative!) audience. On the other hand, if you're using FOSS like Blender (or some 50-100$ app), you may be part of a bigger but *much* less profitable audience.

    Low-end 3D content creators are a terrible market - little money, high demands, very technical problems. That's why you don't have competition here, it's just not worth it unless you hate money and love 3D. It then doesn't matter if that market is 10x times the size.



  15. #215
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    Well M$ is at it again...

    Microsoft now blocks Windows 7, 8.1 updates on Ryzen and Kaby Lake systems
    http://windowsreport.com/windows-7-8...zen-kaby-lake/

    http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r313...Ryzen-and-Kaby

    How pathetic and low can this company get?



  16. #216
    Originally Posted by XYZero View Post
    Well M$ is at it again...

    Microsoft now blocks Windows 7, 8.1 updates on Ryzen and Kaby Lake systems
    http://windowsreport.com/windows-7-8...zen-kaby-lake/

    http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r313...Ryzen-and-Kaby

    How pathetic and low can this company get?
    Their software. Their call. I'm really considering linux. Or hackintosh. I'm still not used to win 10.



  17. #217
    Originally Posted by XYZero View Post
    How pathetic and low can this company get?
    I don't think it's pathetic. It's "unfriendly", but it's the opposite of pathetic. It would be pathetic if they were all apologetic about it. Instead, they are making it very clear that can do whatever the fuck they want and you'll deal with it.

    What is actually pathetic is the competition, i.e. Linux and Mac OS. If those were viable alternatives to Windows PCs, Microsoft couldn't get away with this.

    I also don't believe newer versions of an operating system should be expected to fully support older hardware, even if it's CPUs. It's only because Windows 10 is such an obvious buttfuck that we even seriously care about this.



  18. #218
    Member karab44's Avatar
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    Are these new CPU's in sale already? Are you testing them at home guys?


    Best Regards!
    Albert



  19. #219
    Originally Posted by XYZero View Post
    Well M$ is at it again...

    Microsoft now blocks Windows 7, 8.1 updates on Ryzen and Kaby Lake systems
    http://windowsreport.com/windows-7-8...zen-kaby-lake/

    http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r313...Ryzen-and-Kaby

    How pathetic and low can this company get?
    You mean that after giving away free upgrades to Windows 10?



  20. #220
    Originally Posted by skw View Post
    You mean that after giving away free upgrades to Windows 10?



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