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  1. #61
    Originally Posted by juancarlosgzrz View Post
    Yafaray has been under development for a long time and hasn't gone anywhere yet.
    Hello,

    I'm sorry to say that I think that comment is not too helpful and has a derogatory taste that was unnecessary.

    Do we lack features? Yes, a lot. Do we have bugs? Yes, quite a few (fewer every release, I hope!). Does it mean YafaRay hasn't got anywhere? Not at all in my opinion.

    YafaRay has its uses. Indeed we have way fewer users now than before, but there is still a segment of users who still use YafaRay because it works for them and they can do things in a way they cannot do (or they don't want to do) with other renderers.

    Very probably you could point a very long list of features not yet present in YafaRay. However, if you read the ChangeLog you will see *a lot* of changes and improvements in YafaRay over the last 2 years. Not exactly "not going anywhere" to me.

    Best regards.



  2. #62
    Originally Posted by david.bluecame View Post
    Hello,
    I'm sorry to say that I think that comment is not too helpful and has a derogatory taste that was unnecessary......

    .....However, if you read the ChangeLog you will see *a lot* of changes and improvements in YafaRay over the last 2 years. Not exactly "not going anywhere" to me.

    Best regards.
    I would agree.

    Yafaray developers have achieved a lot with few resources.



  3. #63
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by organic View Post
    I would agree.

    Yafaray developers have achieved a lot with few resources.
    To their credit at least, their issue with slow development (compared to most other engines) has more or less been resolved with David Bluecame here (now they need to get to where they have a complete kit of standard rendering features such as SSS).

    But what might give the impression of Yafaray as a dead project more than anything else (despite it being false) is the website, much of it has not been updated much since years and even the forums does not give a clear indication of the engine's development (due to how quiet it is). There actually seems to be more information about new Yafaray development here on BA than on their own site (and their site is likely the place people will go if they're interested in the engine).

    It also doesn't help Yafaray when their project lead posts harsh commentary whenever a new render engine is being developed (and sometimes does the same thing when industry professionals come out with new sampling technology). If you're the face of the project, then stuff like that is not going to help bring people to start using it (and even worse, give the impression that the devs. are simply closed when it comes to improving things such as the sampling).

    On the above, the best way to market a render engine is to attempt to show people what you can do with it that you can't with most other engines at its price-point (and if you don't have that, then try to show it having a superior workflow and/or performance).
    Last edited by Ace Dragon; 03-May-17 at 19:20.
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  4. #64
    Member juancarlosgzrz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by david.bluecame View Post
    Hello,

    I'm sorry to say that I think that comment is not too helpful and has a derogatory taste that was unnecessary.

    Do we lack features? Yes, a lot. Do we have bugs? Yes, quite a few (fewer every release, I hope!). Does it mean YafaRay hasn't got anywhere? Not at all in my opinion.

    YafaRay has its uses. Indeed we have way fewer users now than before, but there is still a segment of users who still use YafaRay because it works for them and they can do things in a way they cannot do (or they don't want to do) with other renderers.

    Very probably you could point a very long list of features not yet present in YafaRay. However, if you read the ChangeLog you will see *a lot* of changes and improvements in YafaRay over the last 2 years. Not exactly "not going anywhere" to me.

    Best regards.

    I've kept track of Yafaray development, it's one of open source renders I like a lot.

    No me malinterpretes, what I meant to say is that I can't see where is Yafaray heading to, is it a research software, a commercial software, or just a fun project?

    Probably you'll say it has a bit of all of them. But in my opinion is, if you guys devs do not set a public target or segment it's going to end up as abandonware like many others. Take a look at appleseed, the project I talked about, is a VFX software with more and more features being added with strong objectives. VFX.

    Most likely Yafaray devs use their spare time to keep doing what they do, like most of FOSS projects. and I understand because, they have no obligation to do more because people ask them to, or answer things like mine.

    Anyway, I love your work, it was never my intention to sound derogatory.



  5. #65
    Thank you, Juan Carlos, it was a misunderstanding then.

    About YafaRay's "target market" it's difficult to say. It's a generalistic engine but I guess it's being used often for Architectural purposes.

    About features and integration algorithms, I'm currently "studying" all that stuff (which is being quite difficult for me) plus trying to understand how materials and integrators are coded in YafaRay.

    One of my biggest problems is that some of the code is weird, and I don't know if the algorithms are the correct ones, or if they have been correctly implemented or not, or if they could be programming errors or perhaps tricks to improve speed (at the cost of what?)

    Also, another issue is that the fundamentals of the code were developed for PCs back from 10 years ago, so maybe there is no need for such tricks and it could be better to remove them even if the speed gets a bit reduced to improve code clarity and allow other types of optimizations later on.

    I'm even considering re-writing large fundamental parts of the integration/materials code to make it more modular, more clear and to add newer algorithms as well.

    GPU is not possible for me because it's just a huge mess of drivers, manufacturers, cards, tricks, limitations, bugs and an endless support nightmare. We would neec a dedicated lab with different cards, PCs, OSs, and that's just not possible for us (and for me in particular).

    However perhaps we could get better advantage of SSE2 and other PC processor standards, to use better/faster/more parallel algorithms, etc.

    About the website, that's true it feels old but it serves its purpose and it's fast and not bloated. I suppose when YafaRay gets more features it will get more users.



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