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  1. #41
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    Actually, I've two questions about BDPT and Volume rendering:
    1. Why BDPT is so fast than other lighting method?
    2. Is there any difference in Volume rendering option? In World and Object panel?



  2. #42
    Member theoldghost's Avatar
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    I love the look and speed of Yafaray and was using it in a animation project. Then I needed a animation within a animation (Think TV screen) Then searching for faster render times I discovered Cycles had baking. BAKING: the savior of anyone animating a interior without funds for a render farm. At that point I reluctantly moved the entire project to Cycles.



  3. #43
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    It has in V-Ray too, but of course, the Cycles much faster than V-Ray's baker and plus it has Passes baking. I'm still confusing why BiDirPT is faster than PPT in Yafaray and why it will be deprecated than developing? Is somebody knows exact answer?



  4. #44
    Member theoldghost's Avatar
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    Sorry I posted thinking this thread was initiated by the YafaRay development team.



  5. #45
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Odilkhan Yakubov View Post
    It has in V-Ray too, but of course, the Cycles much faster than V-Ray's baker and plus it has Passes baking. I'm still confusing why BiDirPT is faster than PPT in Yafaray and why it will be deprecated than developing? Is somebody knows exact answer?
    BPT tends to give a huge advantage in indoor scenes and scenes with tiny lightsources (because the engine is also tracing from the light and those rays always know where the lights are).

    However, there's two major drawbacks. One, the code for BPT is often extremely complex and hard to understand and two, the amount of flexibility you can give to users in terms of shading goes way down (things like normal-based masking and lightpath tricks become very difficult, if not impossible).

    The good news is that there's many ways to improve the speed and smarts of unidirectional pathtracing so as to ameliorate its drawbacks (like metropolis sampling, gradient-domain sampling, adaptive sampling, ect...).
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



  6. #46
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ace Dragon View Post
    BPT tends to give a huge advantage in indoor scenes and scenes with tiny lightsources (because the engine is also tracing from the light and those rays always know where the lights are).However, there's two major drawbacks. One, the code for BPT is often extremely complex and hard to understand and two, the amount of flexibility you can give to users in terms of shading goes way down (things like normal-based masking and lightpath tricks become very difficult, if not impossible).The good news is that there's many ways to improve the speed and smarts of unidirectional pathtracing so as to ameliorate its drawbacks (like metropolis sampling, gradient-domain sampling, adaptive sampling, ect...).
    For testing purposes I created simple interior room and added camera near to wall, rotate them to the window side, assigned Glass material to window's glass, changed integrator to BPT and hitted button. But, I've strange render result. The window's glass isn't transparented, just black, but it calculated transparency. In others method are works fine.Any thoughts?



  7. #47
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Disclaimer; I'm not a Yafaray user, but much of what I said about the advantages and drawbacks of Bidirectional tracing applies to just about every engine that implements it.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



  8. #48
    Donating Member Alvaro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theoldghost View Post
    I love the look and speed of Yafaray and was using it in a animation project. Then I needed a animation within a animation (Think TV screen) Then searching for faster render times I discovered Cycles had baking. BAKING: the savior of anyone animating a interior without funds for a render farm. At that point I reluctantly moved the entire project to Cycles.
    In YafaRay you can save your photon map for succesive frames, it is a feature that needs to be tested but in theory it won't produce shadow flickering in fly-by scenes.



  9. #49
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ace Dragon View Post
    Disclaimer; I'm not a Yafaray user, but much of what I said about the advantages and drawbacks of Bidirectional tracing applies to just about every engine that implements it.
    Are you sure? I think "something" different in each render engines which is used this lighting method. Maybe in the codes when implementing it to different render engines like: Lux, Corona or Mitsuba. But from other hand maybe it is different in Material system (micro-facet, textures). In Yafaray it has just old Material system like Lambert or Oren-Nayer. Maybe exact this Material system or "Simplyfied" code of BDPT is faster than other "sons" renderers !Another thoughts?



  10. #50
    Donating Member Alvaro's Avatar
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    I am updating the demo files to better show new lighting and sampling workflows. Interior render with HDRI, direct lighting no GI
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	untitled.png 
Views:	15 
Size:	1.29 MB 
ID:	470999



  11. #51
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    Sorry, but what is changed?



  12. #52
    Donating Member Alvaro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Odilkhan Yakubov View Post
    Sorry, but what is changed?
    Grey 18 workflow, no ambient oclussion, adaptive sampling acceleration, tonemapping with film curve, compatible with latest version on Yafaray, etc.


    Name:  enzo.jpg
Views: 254
Size:  87.6 KB



  13. #53
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Alvaro View Post
    Grey 18 workflow, no ambient oclussion, adaptive sampling acceleration, tonemapping with film curve, compatible with latest version on Yafaray, etc.Name:  enzo.jpg
Views: 254
Size:  87.6 KB
    Hm. Now I understand you. P.s.: What about Point hierarchy GPU Acceleration feature, is it messed? Or is it working project? It hasn't in lastest v3.x, so it just a patch? If somebody still using that patch (just search on Graphicall.org) so please, is there somebody used with the newest Nvidia's GPU Card?Best regards.



  14. #54
    Hello, guys.

    After reading all this, I decided to write this post: http://www.yafaray.org/community/for...p=31911#p31911

    I hope it gives you answers for some of your questions, at least from my personal point of view.



  15. #55
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    Oh, ok! Thanks Dave! Really appricieted for reply!



  16. #56
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    And yeah, when you post some videotutorial on Understanding new features Yafaray?Question:Why when rendering with HDR IBL lighting the render result is strange, like black dots or so it?



  17. #57
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    Hi. Is it bug or something, I don't know, but when I check the option Transparent background and rendering using PT, PM or BPT then the render result going darkness than normal. Why?



  18. #58
    Hello,

    A few points:

    * Please if you find a bug, will you please upload simple example scenes and a brief description of the bug and the operating system you are using? I'm interested in the two bugs Odilkhan has talked about (darker render when using transparent background and black dots with HDRI)

    * About BiDir: the Bidirectional integrator is quite different from the rest of the YafaRay integrators and it gives strange, inconsistent and different results from the others. So far I've been unable to attack thes problems but now I'm in the middle of studying materials and this has lead me to study integrators as well (both are intimately related). Therefore I will try to fix the problems with BiDir or perhaps I will have to make a new BiDir integrator, I have to investigate more about what's the best way to proceed.

    * During my study, I recently discovered major issues in Photon Mapping, Path Tracing and BiDirectional integration due to incorrect sampling (see: http://www.yafaray.org/node/803 and http://www.yafaray.org/node/792). I've fixed both issues (I hope) in the current development version and I hope to release a new v3.2.0 beta soon with those fixes (among other changes such as russian rouletter for path tracing http://www.yafaray.org/node/775 that should make path a little bit faster and mipmaps http://www.yafaray.org/node/695).

    Best regards!



  19. #59
    Member Odilkhan Yakubov's Avatar
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    Hi. Sorry, it was mistake. Just BPT doesn't working properly as you mentioned. When I rendering any scenes using BPT + Transparent background then it rendering Empty/Alpha transparented blank image. Its really strange, but without using Transparented background it is rendering normal. Why?Specs: Blender 2.78.4, Win7 x64P.s.: good news.



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