COMPARISION: surfacePro 4 - surfaceBook Performance base - iPadPro - v2

Hi all,

For everybody who is curious what devices to get surface vs ipadpro for using the touch interfaces for creative tasks such as sketching I was able to do a more long term in depth comparison.

I recently got from Microsoft the surfacePro 4 and surfaceBook with the new performance base and own an iPadPro 12".

A common understanding is that iPadPros are not very usable because they run iOS and thus cannot run native PC apps and that with a surface you have touch PC that runs natively win10.
However the developer is in the detail.

Surface:
Pro:
win10 and native apps
Copy paste data and store files like a PC

Con:
In tablet mode win10’s virtual keyboard does not work as well as on iOS or Android.
Very often the keyboard overlays the area were you write.

the surfacepro suffers often from screen brightness flicker issues.

styles and gestures dont often work often flawless drawing while doing a gesture.

Bad battery time on surfacePro 4
Bad build quality of the display surfacePro 4 (bends a lot)
Entry level surfacePro has very limited RAM.
SurfaceBook comes with dual core CPU only and performance base fans are noisy
Cost for the more powerful CPU devices are pretty high

Stylus is not as usable and good as Wacom or Apple stylus
Tilt is not as well working. Pressure points when painting work good. However the steps between ghosting and drawing works very bad creating of broken lines when not pressing hard enough.

Win10 apps have to support HiDPI icons

The surfacePro is the ideal tablet device. All connectors are on the device.
But the CPU and GPU is pretty week - so is battery - and under heavy load it gets hot.

The surfaceBook is rather a laptop where you can detach the display. Then it runs similar to the surfacePro but you have no additional connectors (USB Display Power) or a build in stand. So you cannot just leave the performance base at home and take the display only with you.

iPadPro:
Pro:
Apps that are fully made for gesture navigation.
Apple Pencil works very well for sketching
Pressure points, tilt amount, steps between when not to draw and when to draw works very well.

Con:
cannot run Mac or PC apps
Usable but not as powerful file manager and clipboard tool
Example: you can copy and past images between iOS apps but not all. So with some image you have to make a copy in Photo gallery/icloud/dropbox if the app does not support clipboard sharing. But that is an
issue with the app not iOS.

So my curiosity was how and where could I use each device to its best.

I found that after initial curiosity that the surface products has a lot of flaws.
This starts with the need for HiDPI icons otherwise the software you run is killing your eyes.
Gestures in win10 are well supported but the creative apps has to do so too. in tablet mode
like when using the surfacePro for sketching the virtual keyboard very often does overlay areas where you write. So you start moving they keyboard around on the screen - which kinda harms the tablet UI experience significantly.

The stylus works good but it is still not as perfect as the Wacom or Apple Pencil. It still feels rather like a note taking device. After also calibrating the stylus is works pretty precise. Yet from all three the Apple Pencil still delivers the most natural experience when drawing.

For a portable device the surfaceBook with performance base comes only with an old dual core CPU and old GPU. For the cost of 3000$ thats is pretty hefty to ask for. But the build quality of the Book vs the Pro is great. The Pro tho feels very cheap when you work on the display and it bends inwards alot at the corners. For a 1.600 $ product I would expect something different.

Besides all that the Book is great laptop that gives you some touch abilities. The Pro is a nice sketching device that however is too weak for serious 3D work. On that small screen you might not want to do a lot of 3D modeling anyway.

The iPadPro offers fantastic iOS apps for sketching such as ProCreate Painter Concepts and more. Because they have to follow the touch concept of iOS in terms of drawing and interacting with those apps and tools with gestures is best solved on iOS or Android vs Win10.

The problem tho is what do you do when you want to work with a PC app. Natively does and will never work.

That is where it got recently a lot more interesting.

With AstroPad you can stream part of your Mac display onto the iMacPro and use the iPad hardware to gesture navigate and draw on your Mac. The speed with Studio is realtime. No lag - no artifacts. It is an amazing performance. Even over silly USB 2 which I have or Wifi. The new Studio app also offers gesture
undo redo and onscreen keyboard in case you need to name a layer or enter some number values for a tool.
Downside is that it costs 70$ per year. But if you earn your money with creative work it is not that much.
Consider how expensive the Wacom companion is.

With the new DuetDisplay you can mirror a screen on the iPadPro or turn the iPadPro into a 2nd display for Mac and PC. It has no on screen keyboard and no WiFi. But it works Mac and PC offers very fast performance and much improved gestures. There is still a tiny lag noticeable but it is not as bad as it
was a year ago.

Those two apps can give you basically gesture Wacom like experience for a fraction of the cost with an iPadPro.

I do not use the surface or iPad as the main work device. In my studio I work for hours on a workstation.
But I found when needed a tablet to draw onto (sketching - annotations) the iPadPro delivers a result that
works now today perfect for a faction of the cost of what the surface devices cost.

At the end of the day when work is done the iPadPro is unplugged and uses for browsing the web or watching Netflix.

When on the go being mobile and I need to sketch I use the iOS apps to do so. On that smaller screen iOS (same for android) apps work better because of the size of icons and limited screen space the UI uses. All apps can load and save into Photoshop.

I use iCloud and Dropbox and GoogleDrive to store and share the work which works pretty good.
We are in the time of Wifi now. When you have a newer mac you can also via wifi send image data etc between Mac and iPadPro but when I am in the studio I turn the iPad into a Wacom and I do the work right on the Mac/PC.

So iPadPro vs surface?

A good surface costs a lot more what the iPadPro costs. If you get the entry level 900$ surfacePro you are stuck with an m3 CPU so you want to opt at least for the i5 CPU with 8 GB RAM which will add $300.

So if money is tight the iPadPro might actually a better deal. With a longer lasting battery and better stylus also for sketching it is a better experience. The ability to stream Mac or PC apps onto the iPadPro
turning it into a Wacom like device is a killer feature.

If you have the money and want to go surface the Pro i5 is a good sketching tablet.

Because the surfaceBook is more a laptop I would not consider it as a sketching tool when detaching the display. The surfacePro will serve here better.

After working few weeks just with the surface devices I went back to the iPadPro since I have anyway. My 3D work I do on a serious workstation anyway. And for Netflix both the surfacePro and Book have a terrible sound quality.

So I would say as a sketching device iPadPro is still better.
If you want on the go also work with Blender the surface should be it.

They all have their strength but also serious flaws.

I did not mention the Wacom companion because I feel it is highly overpriced, heavy, and has a bad battery.

I have an ipad pro and I impressed with the performance in all application I’m an artist and graphics design. 3d modeler here what I can share:

  • I found working on big document more responsive than photoshop on a desktop in app like procreate, pixelmator an other…
  • I can use big brushes without any lag “procreate, concept, sketch club” etc…
  • some app like pixelmator full photo editing is limited compare to photoshop but usable I’m awaiting for Affinity photo and design for ipad really powerful and full feature
  • I think the way touch app UI, UX are design is the future of ui design look at how procreate layers and option are well made and functional I really like it.
  • I have not use a surface pro but i have see lot of video review surface pro is more a laptop with tablet capabilities but i see the ipad pro as a Tablet with laptop capabilities.
  • there are some powerfull 3d design tool like " Umake, Shapr3d, 123d sculpt, gravity sketch, Onshape" and some other…

And the best part You can use your Ipad as a Cintiq with Astropad and duet display on a PC or Mac

well he thing is that adobe is pretty obese now.

i am curious about how affinity products will be on then
When those are released then you can work on pothbos with same apps and same file.

i am pretty impressed how painstorm studio works on the ipadpro
usinf the same ui and tools of the pc/mac

I anyway host and share my files in iCloud and google drive and apps can load from and save to it.
so no big file management issue.

ms surfaceStudio looks incredible sexy for creative people
But well it is not a mobile tool.

I use the cloud system to share files so no big problem there the only thing I miss is a full feature vector app so I,m waiting for affinity product I already have some nice vector app like protosketch, concept, autodesk graphics is already very good and have some nice feature.

The form factor idea is pretty spot on. If the surfacePro should be used just for sketching the entry level version has the same price as an iPadPro. I only have the i7 so I cannot rate the performance. 4 GB of ram also concern me. But on the surface Affinity apps runs pretty well. They are new thus the UI is already using HiDPI icons.

I wish the MS stylus would just be better. Each time I try it I feel that it is a note taking device.

I believe they’re apples an pears, you can’t compare them since for instance you cant run blender on the ipad.
so the first thing is to evaluate what you really want, if you want something portable with a pen to run blender, then ipad isn’t the way to go, in the other hand if you want a digital sketchbook, please get an ipadpro.
I got an ipad pro for sketching and animating in 2D (rough animator, an app by a blender user btw).
It has almost replaced my laptop for everything but blending on the move.

I am comparing two devices based on two work scenarios.

running blender via duet on the iPad or as a native app on a surface has no difference
besides the fact the the pencil works more precise and smoother.

thats the simple truth. The ms stylus is the worst stylus of all really harming the surface as an idea.

only if you are on the go the surface has the ability to run blender but then battery time really is an issue and the keyboard making it not an ideal experience.

my resume is that both devices are flawed equally.

Nice read. I wanted to add my two cent’s.
Based on this review from surface Pro Artist I bought Dell Insprion 7568 (2in1 laptop).
I have’t been using surface Pro but dell some big advantages compared to Surface Pro:

  • low price - I bought mine with i5, 8GB ram, 256SSD (bit slow compared to my pc SSD) for around 800$
  • dell is made with wacom AES technology - very small jitter, bigger distance for stylus detection compared to Surface pro.
  • I didn’t test it yet, but dell model seems to give you easy access for replacing/upgrading hdd, ram, battery (not possible in surface pro).
  • 15,6 inch display - this is not as mobile as 12inch surface pro, but I actually like to have bigger drawing space. Thing is Dell has only HD 1080 resolution compared to 2736x1824 on surface. But from what cekuhnen says, at least I do not have to deal with tiny UI problem.
  • keyboard is included with tablet (it is actually permanently connected - because it is 2in1 device - not 100% tablet).

CONS (compared to surface):

  • worse display (black are not the gratest). Display is not bad, it is just that just surface pro that surface pro have very good display.
  • I had to buy pen separately from Dell laptomp (50$ - wacom bamboo smart - no tilt functionality, just pressure)
  • no detachable monitor
  • bigger/ heaver (but I prefer bigger screen so not so big problem)
  • baterry is average (around 5-6 hours of internet browsing - but surface pro is not so good either).
  • as mentioned in Surface Pro Artist blog, wifi driver is broken so I had to do some thinkering to make it work. But after that and downloading updates everything works great.

the more surface you can draw on the better in my point. This will enable more fluid and natural hand motions. One of the advantages of the suracePro or iPad is that you can flip the tables like a sheet of paper. I honestly never bother with rotating the canvas in an app.

That is the main reason why I do not use the normal wacom table (no display) and instead went with the ipadpro while I also own a Wacom Cintique 12 - but it has way to many nasty cables attached.

HD 1080 is still pretty ok for drawing while I have to say the iPadPro Retina or sufaceBook can really spoile you. I hate looking at my Dells after I did some photo editing on the iPadPro after a photo session. But when under win10 HiDPI is still not really supported well by everything whats the point then to be honest. We were and are still all fine without retina displays.

800$ is a pretty good price! The MS products like Apple are a pretty overpriced to be honest - while I feel with the MS products the product quality really does not justify the price hike. While I have to say that the surfaceStudio is pretty amazing!

Just wish OS X would run on it :wink:

I recently got a refurbished Surface Pro 4 i5 4GB fro $525, what a deal! I’m not experiencing the issues you mentioned, which lead me to think you might have gotten a defective one. So far I’m very impressed and pleased with SP4 as a tablet PC, it’s a sketch pad that functions like a decent laptop. But any serious 3D work is out of question due to the GPU.

SP4 and iPad Pro aren’t in the same class, therefore the price difference. I’ve been using Wacom based PC ever since they started licensing it to PC makers in the 90s. From Toshiba Tecra to Samsung Series 7 Slate then Cintiq 22HD and recently Galaxy Pro 12. So I was a bit worrying about SP4 N-Trig stylus, but all doubts are gone after spending two weeks with it on various drawing programs. The tilt sensor matters the most in oil/acrylic painting and maybe in Mudbox or Zbrush. Otherwise I don’t really miss it on SP4.

Galaxy Pro 12 was my attempt to stay with Wacom as I was looking to replace Samsung Slate. But the biggest problem with these “Pro” tablets is they don’t have enough CPU power so the drawings apps have to be dumb downed with limited resolution, tools and numbers of layers. This is a huge problem if you want to do any printable artworks.

With Dropbox, working back and forth between SP4 and Cintiq workstation is seamless. Besides the portability, another big plus for SP4 is it can projects screen wirelessly to most of big screen TVs. It’s very handy for team meetings or just drawing in the living room.

The choice between consumer “pro” tablets and tablet PCs such as SP4 depends on individual needs. Tablet PC costs more, but you’re getting a real laptop with Cintiq capability that can run full programs instead of dumb-downed apps. With that said, tablet PC can’t handle 3D program like Blender. But that might be changing soon, rumor has it SP5 will be equipped with USB-C port which can be connected to full sized GPU cards via GPU dock.

For drawing programs, check out Artrage. It has replaced Sketchbook Pro on my computers. Also check out Rebelle, a physics based watercolor program mimics real world watercolor. For tablet PC power users, check out TabletPro, a program that lets you create custom virtual keypad with custom shortcuts for any program. It turns SP4 into a Cintiq without the need of physical keyboard.

The Surface tab, can it run blender and render in Cycles?

I’d like to throw a third contender into this comparison for on-the-road sketching. :stuck_out_tongue:

Paper drawing pad and pencil(s)

Pros:

  • superior natural drawing feel on natural paper texture
  • superb natural tilt control.
  • outstanding range of different types of ultra-realistic looking pencils and pens, good color range
  • high resolution analogue display
  • drawing pad has an outstanding battery time (hundreds of years)
  • very light and easy to carry (size and thickness varies - the artist can decide to adjust these as needed)
  • works brilliantly in sunlight and under most reasonable lighting conditions
  • easy & healthy on the eyes: natural reflected light instead of harsh blue LED light
  • drawing pad still works when dropped from a 20 stories high building. Does not break.
  • GUI is easy to learn
  • no boot time, always “on”
  • allows you to continue where you left immediately. No need to load or open files.
  • automatic saving, work is protected from software malfunctioning.
  • inexpensive. Accessible to anyone. Drawing pads and pencils can be purchased anywhere. No need for speciality shops.
  • proven effective for hundreds of years to improve your drawing skills.

Cons:

  • undo is limited (eraser)
  • not as flexible in terms of painting tools
  • not as easy to share with others (phone camera or scanner required). Takes more steps.
  • copying takes more time
  • takes more time and resources to delete a file (a match is required as a minimum)
  • unprotected paper does not take well to accidentally dropping it in water (but at least it will still work after drying)
  • pencils and paper will have to be replaced on a regular basis.
  • does not run any compatible operating system. No apps outside your imagination.

In my opinion a tablet and/or Surface Pro can’t really beat a drawing pad and a bunch of pencils (I carry blue and lead pencils (various hardness)) for sheer convenience and flexibility when sketching on the road.

Sounds like you’re a fellow Emily Carr grad. Well spoken. :slight_smile:

I looked into the Rocketbook recently as well (so as to get the best of both worlds) but they don’t make a left-handed model. :frowning:

It is not defective - it is a hardware issue Microsoft admits and it is also found in both surfacePro and surfaceBook.

With airdrop icloud google drive or dropbox you can do the same sharing of files between computers.
If apps support it you can start on a iPad and send the doc to the same app on a Mac.

I am not sure what dumped down iOS apps you were referring to but maybe you should test those apps a little longer of a period of time before making this argument. Concepts allows you to work in ways even Illustrator does not allow you.

Another main issue with MS surface products that still remains is the lack of HDPI UIs for many apps rendering the surface display a serious issue.

Very good Win Mac iOS app is also PaintStorm Studio - a cross platform app that offers I think one of the best tools for painting.

As you point out the CPU and GPU design of the surface is weak when you use the entry level costing already the same as an iPadPro and not having the same computational punch.

Actually Affinity Photo and Lightroom run incredibly fast on the iPad vs my Mac/Pc because of how GPU and CPU are connected.

Tools are tools, use whatever works for you the best.
Peace.
Oct, the ex-Apple fanboy.

Yes tools that’s right - they should be evaluated fairly.

Exactly, well said!