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  1. #61
    Member Safetyman's Avatar
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    I used LW for many years and I had a love/hate relationship with it, from the dumb dongle and licensing issues (although customer support was great), the split program setup, to the wonderful renderer, I finally decided to seek other pastures. I don't regret switching to Blender full time at work, and it continues to amaze me with each release.

    I'm a little sad that LW isn't in my workflow anymore, since I did some great things with it, but I can't afford to sit around and hope that the Next version will clean up it's many flaws... and then waiting forever to fix all the bugs that are bound to be present in this new iteration. Heck, for all we know, Next may be vaporware, and I can't throw all my eggs into that basket.

    Overall, I really like not having to bug management for money when a new version of Blender comes out.
    Quicksand has no sense of humor



  2. #62
    Member colkai's Avatar
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    Though only a hobbyist, that pretty much sums up my experience. Like you, I do still have a soft spot for LW, but when all is said and done, it just wasn't moving in any sort of direction modeller wise for me. Blenders modelling setup is a real joy to use.



  3. #63
    Originally Posted by apoclypse View Post
    you just outsource the whole thing to Canada and they in turn to Asia for arguably better results and less overall cost.
    *sigh* so true.

    It's too bad, LW looks like it has a cool npr renderer and it's used a lot in Anime from what I can tell. I would like to give it a go but honestly, the modelling workflow in Blender is better and with some tweaking you can get the same render results with Cycles/Freestyle. I can't even bother to get a trial going on my computer for LW :/



  4. #64
    Nah i think you confuse XSI with Lightwave. The anime industry and Japanese 3D companies in general where often using XSI.

    Regarding Lightwave and Star Trek Discovery, i remember this first teaser of the show and how people where reacting to it (rightfully).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8h9uNeIB_M

    Might it be possible that the negative backlash regarding the design as well as the quality of the cgi had anything to do with the decision to drop Lightwave for the show?



  5. #65
    Originally Posted by Romanji View Post
    Nah i think you confuse XSI with Lightwave. The anime industry and Japanese 3D companies in general where often using XSI.

    Regarding Lightwave and Star Trek Discovery, i remember this first teaser of the show and how people where reacting to it (rightfully).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8h9uNeIB_M

    Might it be possible that the negative backlash regarding the design as well as the quality of the cgi had anything to do with the decision to drop Lightwave for the show?
    I don't think it had anything to do with Lightwave but the studio that they hired that was using Lightwave. This is not an indictment of LW itself but the studio who was using producing subpar work. It could be due to LW, possibly/maybe, but more likely it was due to the studio's lack of resources or ability to produce the level of quality that was needed within the given budget time constraints. Like I said you can basically have that stuff sent to Canada and they will give you phenomenal results at bargain bin (relatively) prices. You have to remember that there are a lot of effects houses in Canada, some of them basically across the street from each other, they are all bidding for work. Liek we like to say about Net Neutrality, competition makes for a better product.

    So to me the issue was the studio that was using LW was producing TV level work when TV level has been fast approaching cinema level over the last few years. The Expanse, GoT, etc. that's what people are coming to expect in a TV show. Star Trek has to at least be on par if not better. Going back to Enterprise level of effects is not going to cut it anymore.



  6. #66
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by apoclypse View Post
    So to me the issue was the studio that was using LW was producing TV level work when TV level has been fast approaching cinema level over the last few years. The Expanse, GoT, etc. that's what people are coming to expect in a TV show. Star Trek has to at least be on par if not better. Going back to Enterprise level of effects is not going to cut it anymore.
    It could still be in part due to Lightwave, it would inevitably cost a lot more and take a lot more time to produce cinema-level effects using software that is generally seen as outdated in terms of rendering, animation, modeling, and VFX technology. I remember that impressive demo where someone created a photorealistic human eye in Lightwave, but it took a ton of work to get it to that point (and a decent contributor to that was limitations of the app, something like that could be done far more easily with the industry leaders such as Maya and Arnold).

    Then there's the fact that Lightwave's rate of development is seen as very slow by today's standards (three years without even so much as a maintenance release is not a good sign for serious users, especially if the application. had a serious bug or regression that came with that last release).
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
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  7. #67
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    3 months after the release rumor and no information, the Lightwave folks finally got something.

    Just a picture of a tiger (with no additional information other than showing that LW Next has what looks like a pretty good render engine).
    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....t-Tiger-Render

    I can imagine though that the ultra-slow drip-feeding can be a bit maddening (compared to the abundance of information and frequent releases of other vendors). They have no public betas and no builds that people can try for feedback purposes (like we do with the 2.8 buildbot), that's not to mention that the blog is looking very underused now (and as a result they still risk losing a good chunk of avid users by the time the new version does come out).
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



  8. #68
    Originally Posted by Romanji View Post
    Nah i think you confuse XSI with Lightwave. The anime industry and Japanese 3D companies in general where often using XSI.
    Maybe, I was just going by lightwaves blog and other videos of their npr renderer. Just looks easy to use :P

    That Tiger render looks great, the eyes need a bit more work though. They should have added some geo around the eyeball to get it to fit better. Fantastic fur though.



  9. #69
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Bumping this thread once again, because it looks like the Lightwave community has made a little bit of a breakthrough amid the frustration toward the lack of information.

    They actually got someone high up in Newtek's management to start talking to them in a thread filled with speculation as to whether Lightwave Next would actually come. Of course it's a fairly standard "we're working on it and we want to release when ready" reply, but this has not happened since the blog entries stopped.

    Hopefully, this convinces NewTek to actually make an effort to hold on what's left of their userbase by being more regular with development news (especially as we see the next round of releases from their competitors). The best move they could perhaps make here is dramatically undercut the competition in price while also delivering Next with the promised overhauls complete (if not only to start rebuilding the community and start bringing back some of the veterans who moved on).
    Last edited by Ace Dragon; 07-Aug-17 at 21:02.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



  10. #70
    Member colkai's Avatar
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    I do find it interesting that the "we're worknig on it, it's gonna be the best thing ever" line is still being hauled out at each release.
    I got tired of that back in the LW10 / CORE days post 9.6 I guess when you have a lot of time and money invested in it, you have to hope that this time, they actually mean that. The proof will be when it is released I guess.



  11. #71
    Member Safetyman's Avatar
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    The lack of communication from NewTek is troubling and even though the CTO has chimed in, he really didn't say much. I'll go with the glass half full here and hope that they have been developing something really special these last 3 years. Heck, it had better be CORE-like after that much time, but I doubt it.

    I know that I won't be buying LW Next since Blender exceeds my needs (and the BF regularly gives updates!), but I truly don't want to see LW wither and die.
    Quicksand has no sense of humor



  12. #72
    Member colkai's Avatar
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    LW will always hold a soft spot for me, but I have never regreted the decision to move to Blender, I find it far more flexible in it's modelling and toolset. Newtek just seemed to go in their own direction and from what I have read, it still doesn't seem to be a consistent one, though I am sure it suits some of the LW faithful, just not little ole me.



  13. #73

    Lightwave

    I may pull the trigger on Lightwave now that it is down to $695 for a perpetual license. I will always have a soft spot for it (I started using it in the Amiga days and used it professionally for game products for over four years. We had 5.0-5.5 seats on DEC Alphas running Windows for Workstation.

    I havn't used it since our games transitioned to Max in 2002. I always loved the quality of the renderer.

    Since I am a hobbyist/part time game developer now I am not keen on anything that is subscription-based. I want to own the software. I am currently looking at a Lightwave/Blender combination for my next project. I have heard they communicate very well together.



  14. #74
    Member Herbert123's Avatar
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    Might be a better idea to get an indie license of Houdini, and combine that with Blender. Quite powerful combination - Lightwave doesn't really bring anything new to the table when you combine it with Blender, in my opinion. The render engine is quite good, but aging. With Houdini Indie and a vray license, you'd still have more money left in the bank.

    Now, I don't know what Lightwave Next will present to us - may take another year before it is released, unfortunately. But at this point Houdini is a better investment, and it nicely mitigates Blender's weaker spots.
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  15. #75
    Member JustinBarrett's Avatar
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    I don't really think the 'lightwave next' thing will pan out...they have not updated their dev blog since...forever....at least not anything really relevant...most of the posts are still just playing catchup to other packages...including blender....blender is ahead of LW technologically...good times
    "The crows seem to be calling my name." Thought Kaw.
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  16. #76
    Originally Posted by JustinBarrett View Post
    I don't really think the 'lightwave next' thing will pan out...they have not updated their dev blog since...forever....at least not anything really relevant...most of the posts are still just playing catchup to other packages...including blender....blender is ahead of LW technologically...good times
    I have heard that Blender has problems working with large, complex scene files (millions of polygons with hundreds of lights, and hundreds of objects. From the preliminary tests I have done Blender gets pretty chuggy to work with in excess of 7 million polygons and a few hundred objects.

    If this is true (and not a viewport/graphics card issue) than that is a pretty serious deal breaker for my next project.

    For the aged grandma that Lightwave is, that isn't anywhere near a problem. That being said the future of the platform looks to be in doubt so I would be hesitant to plunk down $695, though that is still a good deal given it is a perpetual license.

    I would consider Blender as the sole 3d tool for my project if I can get around this problem. Somethings about the program make me scratch my head (general interface/is there no UV relax in here? WOW.) you cannot argue the mountain of features it has or how powerful it is...for free.



  17. #77
    Originally Posted by Herbert123 View Post
    Might be a better idea to get an indie license of Houdini, and combine that with Blender. Quite powerful combination - Lightwave doesn't really bring anything new to the table when you combine it with Blender, in my opinion. The render engine is quite good, but aging. With Houdini Indie and a vray license, you'd still have more money left in the bank.

    Now, I don't know what Lightwave Next will present to us - may take another year before it is released, unfortunately. But at this point Houdini is a better investment, and it nicely mitigates Blender's weaker spots.
    Houdini Indie looks pretty darn impressive. I am downloading the apprentice version as I type this. I don't care for subscription models (even at $199), but it looks good. Unfortunately no Vray support yet and I don't like the 1920x1080 resolution limit for animations.

    It's my understanding that after the extremely damaging Core-fiasco, any future Lightwave release is to be considered vaporware. There are some restless natives over at their forums over there . Particularly a few insiders sitting on Core pre-releases that will never see the light of day. Any assessment I do will be based on 2015 ONLY. When you consider 2015 perpetual is only $695 it's probably not a terrible purchase.



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