Challenge #715 Voting CLOSED

This week’s theme: Experiment of a mad scientist

Challenge #715

After 2 days of voting, a winner is declared: The voting will close on Wednesday.
The winner picks the theme for next week.

Pure Entries

  • fcharr
    Unstable
  • YAFU
    Playing to be God
  • rarebit
    Abigail’s Party
  • fdo
    Laboratory

Open Entries

Non-competing Entries

  • Helge
    Experiment of a mad scientist?
  • purbosky
    Lab Rat
  • RobertT
    UNIVERSAL PET-HUMAN TRANSLATOR
    http://www.artofinterpretation.com/images4/wc715-UniversalPettoHumanTranslator-byrjt2017.jpg
  • OLG
    Baby Cloned Godzilla
  • Heksa90
    Beginning of an AI takeover?
  • DoriNori,Helge,Heksa90,Hatchnet
    Low Budget Time Machine

Continuing/summarizing the previous discussion:

Replacing the existing Weekend Challenge is out of the question. I don’t think this would make any sense.

Sounds like a good plan to me. In case it works out, it could become a loose series (e.g. Collaboration Challenge #1, #2, #3, …) within the ‘Member Contests’ section.

It would probably be a good idea to tell everyone what you are going to work one in advance (“first come first serve”).

I guess that problem isn’t unique to this concept. So far we haven’t had many problems with it in the BWCs, so the forum rules and some common sense will hopefully be enough to deal with it.

No voting, no winner, no problems. :slight_smile:

Sounds simple and makes sense to me. Ideas could be collected in the ‘current’ thread, the next one could start with a few days of voting.

Whoever provides the idea / modus operandi for that month, could also be in charge of moderation/assembly. I think that would be fair.

Maybe I’m just lazy but (for DoriNori-Class-Challenges) I still prefer the one-resolution-transparent-png-approach. Joining/Synchronizing blend files will probably result in a lot of problems (duplicate names, incompatible settings, missing textures/addons, different render engines/compositor settings, different need for ram/render power, …). However, providing the source files for everything would be great and valuable. Being able to use the existing files and to learn from them is one thing I really like about this concept.

I hope I didn’t forget to many relevant aspects of the discussion… :wink:

More non-competing entries that competing ones! What’s up with that? Great job everyone.

Whoops… what I have in mind back there was actually ‘aside from WC’ instead of ‘instead of WC’. My bad… :o

I agree, it should be more about fun than competition.

I agree, that’s why I personally haven’t taken part in a Blender Weekly Challenge. I think the fact that users are allowed to post ‘Pure’ non-competing images is extremely unfair to everyone else that has chosen to participate. Nobody cares if they win or not, but I’m sure everyone that elects to compete would appreciate the chance to see how popular their image truly is when compared to everyone else’s image.

Remember, sometimes you can produce something in a few minutes that is way better then something you’ve spent days slaving over. It’s not impossible for a less experienced or talented artist to beat a more experienced talented one, however it is if the more experienced artist chooses to never compete.

Personally I would like to see the rules for this competition changed to something way simpler, like:

  1. You must start with a blank scene and create everything from scratch using only Blender.

  2. Competitors are restricted to using only the default Blender addons that are ship with Blender. However, competitors are allowed to create and use their own scripts/addons so long as they too have been created during the competition period.

  3. All ‘Pure’ images posted within the competition thread at the end of the competition period will be considered competing entries.

I think the idea of providing a collection of mesh parts (maybe scavenged from blendswap) along with a competition theme is defiantly the correct way forward. I would imagine there are lots of Blender modelers as well as maybe some companies that would love to donate parts of their models to a kind of ‘Blender Weekly Challenge Kitbash Collection’ in return for getting their names and details displayed in the credits.

Also IMHO I think the winner each week should at least get to have their image displayed on the front page for the rest of the week. You could cycle the image on the front page so that it displayed the winning entry and then displayed all the names and links to those that have provided the modeled parts.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing any changes you all decide to implement.

Providing models is a good idea, but how many, and whose are most prominent?

Also, now I’m quite adept at roughing out a block of a human form in minutes (thanks to the WC rules), whereas if I was allowed it would be easier and generally more stunning to use a prefabricated one. Also a single character can easily be the whole image, especially with the intent / pose being the focus, not the modelling (I remember many MH models taking the day before people complained it was unfair). So I think that having to create all from scratch forces you into good decision making for the overall plan and execution of the project, also knowing your limits and where you need to improve / learn…

I haven’t entered as much as I could over the past year or so because I have soooo many WC challenge models that need taking to the next level, rather than starting new ones, so I’d love a change there, but then that would take a fundamental change, at the very least the extension of the “open” category.

I’m a big ideas kind of guy, I don’t concern myself with all the little details. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Seriously, I do see what you mean and obviously somebody has to take on the responsibility for organizing all the donated model parts into a proper coherent collection based on a given theme. As to whose models are more prominent, I guess that has to be left to the competitor/artist to decide. I see where you are going with the question, like should all competitors be forced to use all the provided models? If not then do you still include credits to everyone that donated models?

I total agree with you, that’s why my suggestion for this particular competition is that everyone should just start from a blank scene. I don’t personally see a kind of ‘Blender Weekly Kitbash Challenge’ replacing this competition, but I do see it becoming far more popular, at least with the less experienced users.

Hi. I am THE original pure / non-competing participant of this challenge.

I arrived at that choice primarily by winning a number of consecutive challenges, and I stepped back from the competition for various reasons, primarily as a means to give others a chance while also being able to enjoy the weekly challenge of creating things within a weekend.

With one or two exceptions over a 10+ year period, I have always started my projects from scratch, with the default Blender cube usually quickly deleted.

The WC really is fine as it is. No one should be discouraged from participation, but participation should always remain a choice.

As for myself, I would not participate in this challenge any more if pure / non-competitive entries were ever disallowed.

This is, as I have always understood and approached it, essentially a “for-fun” event, something that should not be taken too seriously, more of a personal creative challenge than anything else.

I do hope you choose to enter the challenge sometime in the future. It is fun and always educational, and I highly recommend it!

RobertT

I guess the rules could be tweaked here and there. And maybe they could be more specific in some areas (what about: textures, addons, external post, …). But do we really need this to be changed? I don’t think so. The official rules state:

If you can honestly say to yourself, “Yes, I mainly used Blender to make this”, then the entry is Pure.

Personally, I call my entries pure, if everything is new and was created for that specific weekend challenge. However, the condition “If you can honestly say to yourself” isn’t specific at all - but that is a good thing. As Robert said: this is for fun. And having the choice to enter as pure, open or non-competing helps a lot to keep things interesting and fun. (Experience, spare time, motivations may differ between users, but this way everyone can take part.) Hiding all those penguins within entries for weeks or trying to complete DoriNori’s drawing together are things that live of this kind of freedom. This is more than just a hunt for votes - and that is what I like about the WC.

On the matter of “pure non-competing” entries:
I think it is good to have that option. Having the same members win most of the time can be discouraging as well. And apart from that: there are so many different reasons to enter the challenge (learning, entertainment, fun, competition, practice, community, …) - it just wouldn’t be fair to make ‘competition’ the only one that counts.

And of course: it is always good to have more entries! :slight_smile:

Looking at the time, I probably should stop rambling - and instead declare YAFU the winner of Weekend Challenge #715:wink:

And… the winner of Weekend Challenge 715 with 40% of the votes is… YAFU!
Here’s to all the great participators…

fcharr : 4 : 20%
YAFU : 8 : 40%
rarebit : 2 : 10%
fdo : 5 : 25%
KubeRoot : 1 : 5%

https://blenderartists.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=474986&stc=1&thumb=1
Playing to be God

Thank you RobertT for your reply, I can really see from your point of view why this rule was introduced and why you choose to not compete. However, like you’ve said this event/challenge if meant for fun as such I don’t think anybody cares if you win every other week or not. As it stands I think the whole voting system is pointless and really sends the wrong kind of message, and maybe it’s at least one of the reasons why so few members even bother to cast a vote.

Perhaps the real solution is to just do away with the voting altogether and figure out a different way to come up with a competition theme or maybe just allow competitors to vote, so it’s a tie every week ;). As it stands I think a lot of people feel like I do, in that I don’t want to ever put myself in a position where I feel I shouldn’t enter my image because I think it’s somehow better then other peoples (which I honestly never do think) or that for some mad inexplicable reason people keep voting for me. Maybe I’m just crazy but that’s how I honestly feel about it, so unless the voting is stopped or every ‘Pure’ posted image has to be entered I can’t see how I will ever be able to participate (which you can rest assured is no great loss to the competition).

I guess I could post an image using some old models and post it as an ‘Open non-competing’ entry so maybe I will do that.

Anyway, thank you again for your confession :wink:

Hi Helge,

I would argue that having those same members post images and not compete is just as equally discouraging if not more so to those that have elected to compete. As the whole voting system is really just used to select a person that will decide the next competition theme, maybe each competitor should just be asked to suggest a theme for the next competition when they post their image and then just put all the suggested themes to a vote instead of the images.

Anyway, I’ve never entered so I really have no right whatsoever to be telling you all how I think the competition should be run. But maybe you should ask the people that do compete regularly what they really want to see happen, rather then just assuming they don’t want you and others like you to compete. Or maybe you’ve already done so?

@YAFU
Congratulations! I don’t know if I allowed to say it but I did vote for you :slight_smile:

Just a point: any winner (repeat or otherwise) certainly would eventually “care” because that winner would then have to pick the topic and therefore be at a (potentially frequent) advantage of being in control of the creative direction of the Weekend Challenge. Such dominance is not something I personally crave.

I cannot agree. I benefited from many “loses,” and drew inspiration from that to continuously refine my techniques and range. I did so until I eventually entered into perpetual competition with myself.

I believe such voting can encourage – through either “wins” or “losses” – Blender users to achieve greater things.

My own experiences prove this, and there are many other fine examples of such improved Blender artists over the years.

…to realize there is no real “problem” to begin with, only perceptions.

Let me clear up one potentially implied misperception right now: I would never assume any entry of mine would be better than others in any given week. People here are good, really good, and I am not here to out-do anyone, except myself. In fact, I believe most of my images, if entered as “competing,” would have “lost,” but I see this not as a contest but a challenge.

A challenge where everyone potentially wins, in some sense, whether they “win” or “lose” the vote.

So I see no good reason to overthink any of this. We are, in fact, up to Weekend Challenge # 715, now going on 716:

for a simple, free, voluntary effort, all has worked incredibly well for many years and will continue to thrive thanks to participants who realize this is simply a good-natured and friendly challenge intended to be shared by Blender enthusiasts who honestly wish to improve their skills, approach themes creatively, experiment and try new things, and come away from it all with a sense of fun, wonder, perhaps some learning and personal creative improvements – all which can be applied well beyond these challenges.

It really has seriously amazing benefits, this challenge, if one does not take it too seriously.

There are other “serious” challenges out there, ones with apparent notoriety, prizes even, and perhaps some people might prefer that rather than an open and friendly challenge such as this.

This challenge is worthwhile and encouraging, and that has nothing to do with votes but everything to do with this community, the internal support it enjoys among its members, and the creativity Blender makes possible that we can share, not as harsh competitors, but as true creative enthusiasts and community members decidedly intent on enjoyment and self-improvement whilst remaining friendly and true to all the open and positive qualities which make Blender so amazing and invitational.

RobertT

@3dbi, thanks! :slight_smile:

Regarding sharing the models from the weekend challenge you mentioned above… I do not think this kind of competition is a good thing for what you propose because you should do the best you can in a short time. This is, fast modeling and plenty of workarounds to solve the lack of time. In my case my models are realy bad meshes, they are not optimized at all and there are a lot of faults. In this entry the babies are very fast Dyntopo sculptures. For the hoses and cords I’ve been fighting with Curve modifier so they turned out with a bunch of unnecessary vertices (I even forgot to select Merge in Array modifier after applying). So here in general there are fast models, not good or optimized models. Not good to be shared with the pupose that they can be used in production by other people or even for educational purposes.
At least speaking for me, maybe there are more experienced people who can make really good and optimized meshes/models in such a short time.

Regarding competition rules being very strict… it would be very tedious and there would be no real way to check that each one has complied/met with the rules. So I think the challenge works pretty well the way it has for years. And I think that experienced users who decide only occasionally participate (or decide to publish non-competitive entries) know what they are doing.

So come on, participate on the next challenge. I hope you find the theme/topic interesting, it’s hard to be original picking a new theme after so many years (Have you seen the long list in the ‘Helge’ posts signature? :spin: )

Edit:
Ok, reading again I’m not sure I understood correctly about the collection of models for the challenge. Anyway if there is a misunderstanding you ignore it. My bad English…

Edit 2:
Yes, it seems I had misunderstood. And please do not provide models to be used for the challenge. Modeling/sculpt the best you can in a short time is an excellent exercise (even if it result in non optimized / bad models) . For example I and other people have used Blender Sculpt tools for the first time thanks to the challenge.

We probably would have to apply scientific methods in order to find out if there are effect and how strong each of them is. :wink:
Personally, I have entered competing entries for quite some time - and never felt discouraged by the non-competing ones.

Actually, it would be great if you decided to enter. But even if you don’t, every opinion is important. How else can we know what people think? After all, the entry and voting threads are there not only for dropping off images and casting votes - but for discussion as well.

As we have a lot of discussions surrounding the challenges and this hasn’t been much of an issue so far, I suppose everything is just fine for most participants. Regarding my own decision on entering as ‘pure but non-competing’: In addition to the reasons mentions before, I currently edit, open and close the entry and voting threads. And I usually know the next theme before everyone else (apart from the creator of the new theme). I probably could still enter a competing entry, but it just wouldn’t feel right. (It is similar to voting for my own entry - I wouldn’t do that either.)

Sure, you are. “Comments are welcome in both threads.”

Why is everyone commenting in essay form all of a sudden?

The Pulitzer Prize announcemens are quite close (April I think).
One probably needs more than a single line of text to win that one. :slight_smile:

I believe you are mistaken on the above statement. It’s hard to get votes, or win, even with a small field and even with non-competings. Put in an entry this week and see! Come on in – the water is fine. :cool:


*some pic on GI

OK! [INSERT IMAGE OF RABBIT POKING HIS HEAD OUT HERE]

@RobertT
I REALLY wasn’t trying to imply that you personal felt your work was better than other peoples, simply that the current system, as you’ve rightly pointed out, can lead a lot of people to that wrong conclusion. To just completely ignore what the majority (ok, maybe I’m in the minority, I don’t know?) of people seem to concluded when they look at the competition rules is a little wrong in my opinion, especially when the source of most peoples misconceptions about the competition could easily be rectified.

@Everyone
I guess I think more like a programmer than an artist (which is something I would actually like to change) so maybe I should just embrace what I perceive to be illogical behavior and get on with it.

I have no knowledge of how the competition rules were original decided i.e. whether at the time all members were asked to vote on the decision to include a ‘Pure’ non-competing category or whether it was just included.

It’s obvious from RobertT’s statement:

that most if not everyone involved (as well as myself) would now have no other recourse but to vote yes to such a category, just so RobertT continued to share his amazing work with the rest of us.

But as I’m sure RobertT is aware he has the respect of the entire BlenderArtist community (myself included) and with that, like it or not, he has a strong influence over what other Blender artists decide, even if it’s not what they truly want. I think if you asked anyone that regularly competes in the competition, if they would like to see everyone just compete together as equals then most if not all would answer YES! Then surely it’s just a case of maybe saying the person with the least amount of votes has the unenviable responsibility of deciding the next competition theme.

Have I solved problem? Or do you all still think I’m the only with the problem?

I really honestly can not see how anybody can think posting a ‘Pure’ non-competing image is somehow fairer and more fun for everyone else involved.

@RobertT
When you first started did people you considered better/more skilled then yourself not compete? Again I don’t know when you brought in this Pure non-competing rule, but I assume it wasn’t a problem initially. But for argument’s sake had there been such a rule at that time would you personal have not wanted to compete against everyone including those you thought were much better then yourself? Would you have been content with people voting for your image knowing full well that it wasn’t the best entry that particular week?

From what I understand, you have moved on and feel that just competing with yourself is really all the motivation you personally require now. But I cannot for the life of me see why you and others like yourself want to deny people like myself, that may not have yet reached that point, the opportunity to compete against you all!

@Everyone
Well if you’ve got to this point and you’ve read everything I’ve posted in this thread, and still remain unconvinced there is a problem that needs to be addressed, then I guess I’ll just have to surrender and leave it to someone better equipped then myself to convince you that there is problem. But I hope you all can at least see that I’m not just trying to make trouble here, and it’s actually something I have thought about for a while but its never directly effect me until now. Because now I find myself wanting to participate, to try and help improve my artistic skills but maybe, at least for me, this just isn’t really the right competition. :frowning:

However, I really do appreciate the words of encouragement you’ve all provided, so I feel it only right that I at least try once to enter the competition if only to experience first hand for myself the true injustice of it all.

I will create everything from scratch using only Blender (I know that isn’t strictly a requirement but I do personal like the idea of it). I do work most days including weekends (I’m a painter and decorator by profession) so I really only get a couple of hours in the evenings to have some fun with Blender. My biggest problem I think besides probably not having much artistic talent, is my tendency to take on more work than I can realistically handle within the alloted time frame, and thus I tend to never complete the project. Also I never really feel like I’ve finished modeling an object enough so I tend to never do any texturing etc using my own models. So all I’m saying is don’t be disappointed/surprised if my entry turns out to be a grayscale image :).


if ALL_COMPETITORS == ALL_ENTRIES:
    print("It's a fun and friendly competition!")
else:
    print("It must be something else, but what?")

@YAFU,
The “collection of models for the challenge” that you are referring to is just an idea for a completely new/ different competition, I do not personal see it ever replacing this competition however I think it would become a more popular alternative should they/you all decide to ever implement it.

I agree with you, I mean given enough time anybody can produce an amazing model, even me! but doing so in just a few hours takes a hell of a lot of practice. But Kitbashing (i.e. being able to create new models using parts obtained from other models) is also a very valuable skill to have and can obviously help you create much better results given the time constraints.

Maybe, but again I think given the time constraints most people today would just use zbrush or 3dcoat (if indeed they had access to either of them) to quickly automatically/semi-automatically retopologize their sculptures. I would really love to see Blender get such a tool!

I have, and I actually really do like the theme you’ve chosen, it made me think of the film ‘Honey I Shrunk The Kids’ which I guess would have also worked for this competition as well!

I know the rules (Grrr!) prevent you from entering but I hope to see an image from you, seeing as you’ve along with the others have forced me into participate! :wink:

@Everyone
Well I think I’ve prattled on enough and I’m wasting my valuable Blender time as well as probably a lot of other peoples. I hope to see everyone competing this weekend!

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about :wink:

No, I’m still struggling, and I’m a bizarre character, hmmm I started off with a touch of slap n tickle (painting n decorating) and am now a programmer, are you my alter ego when I’m asleep?

A little story, which never happened but almost… Helge, too good… he kept winning and winning and winning and winning, I was tempted to ask him to give others a chance, but in no way did I want him to stop or feel like he wasn’t welcome (more than that he’s wanted for his character, even if he doesn’t enter). One bonus to the rules is that he could only win every other week!

I like the non-competing entries because they show what is possible, because as RT says, he starts from scratch A.K.A. pure. Some may go non-competing because they have used old models or other resources and have taken the honourable decision to class their entry as non-competitive, (hmm what a great concept), and on that point this is a challenge and not a competition, so its sort of understandable that you may not complete everything in one weekend (5 days?) but you can always take what you’ve done and take it further as and when you like, I have enough for two films and have spent mucho time developing it all, I didn’t even need to write a story because this challenge gives inspiration.

The commonest complaint I’ve heard over time is that its irritating one can’t enter even though won, many are here as a social event and not just for the art and crafts we all share as a passion, for me its the taking part, making up the numbers, havin a go and I often surprise myself at what I can achieve if I try.

I remember my little nephews, playing Mariokarts, lol yeah I could win every time (not really 'cos I was great but just better than them, they could sit n google at bouncing trees for hours so what do you expect), anyway, winning meant nothing, but if I didn’t play it wasn’t as much fun for them, we were all having fun together and winning didn’t exist, sadly its all too important now lol.

Waffling… toodle pip

I’ve been here a very long time, and people familiar with my work over the years know I do not support any such superior attitude. Again, I approach this as a personal challenge, not a true competition.

I never gauged myself against other people’s works. That’s one of the biggest mistakes anyone can make, in or beyond art. I just set about bettering myself, or at least trying different things. And I would say I personally “won” any challenge, regardless of actual votes, whenever I felt I reached a slightly better point in my creative abilities.

I should also point out: I am not in charge of any rules here, nor did I institute any rules. I am just one of many Blenderheads here who have participated (non-competitive or otherwise) without any issues for literally hundreds of challenges.

This interesting quote from T.S. Eliot’s Four Quartets (“East Coker,” V.) approaches my general feelings toward competition:

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/611166-so-here-i-am-in-the-middle-way-having-had

(starting with “So here I am” up to “not our business”)

Just have fun with it. Create, participate, and enjoy! Blender, just like this challenge, is for fun, learning, exploration, and creative expression.

RobertT