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  1. #21
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    The issue with everyone having their own giant Earthship containing its own farm and power station is that you would need several times the space as a standard ranch-style home in a suburban neighborhood (especially if you want everyone to have property left for landscaping and fun stuff).

    It would also mean that highrise apartments and condominiums would be impossible (you appear to consider yourself an eco-warrior, how would you like the cities to expand to 10 times their size so as to hold all of these)?

    That's not to mention that eco-house designs have not really taken off because people can't see themselves living in something that is considered 'weird' (the same reason why the supposed plastic house of the future never took off). There is a town about two hours west of where I live where the initiative after a tornado was to build green, pretty much everyone decided against the ultra-modern green home designs (which it has a couple) for a more energy efficient version of a normal house.

    That pretty much also sums up some of the other ideas that are done in the name of being green, it ends up being more destructive to the environment than what it replaced.
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  2. #22
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    A small green house, photobioreactor, solar concentrator, a home,
    It's not some ubber huge ranch.

    Green house and indoor gardens can use a condenser to pull the evaporated moisture from the air, and you add nutrients back to it (compost tea etc made from compost proccessed by soldierfly larva)


    You are harvesting a little, and planting a little almost every day.
    (autonomously)

    People want food, but won't need to babysit it,

    Indoor farms need almost no pest control unless something goes wrong.

    https://gardening.stackexchange.com/...eed-one-person
    Last edited by BluePrintRandom; 26-Jun-17 at 18:11.
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  3. #23
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    If you want everyone to live off the grid (and off of everything for that matter) in little standalone enclaves, then you would also need to account for water, heating during the winter, transportation (it's not like people will no longer travel), cooling during the summer, and space to store inventory needed for your 3D printers (which in turn would have to be much larger than your average Makerbot). Also, unless you are one of those tree-hugging hippies who promote the vegan lifestyle, add space for those meat growing vats that are in development.

    You would also need a fair amount of solar panels to power everything (even the best ones out now are maybe 20 percent efficient, a bit less yet if you go for the cheap models or the more novel ones).

    Get those done, and providing you have an average family size, you've already taken up a fair bit of space (even if you have no spare property for fun activities and even if you restrict your diet to just a few select types of food).
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
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  4. #24
    I know people personally who are either vegan or self sufficient to a degree. They get on with it, and it works for them. They don't espouse it's virtues, or even discuss it much. Unless asked. And yet they still get crap about it.

    Any idea or concept contrary to what people consider "normal" is going to be resisted. So I don't see the point in trying to convince them. If it's a life you want to lead, then do it. If others don't and they don't want to listen, there's not much to do about it.

    I don't people think people living in western cultures, particularly, are willing to give up a lifestyle they think is "comfortable". Not to mention the fact governments are also obstructing people trying to live "off grid". There's a few cases of local government taking steps to force people to connect back up to municipal systems. And that's in the US.

    I'm not sure what the reasoning behind the obstruction is. But it exists. Perhaps hazard to neighbours? something that would be an issue in a relatively built up area. But that doesn't appear to be the case in every situation.

    I'd find it a little concerning to know that a government is getting that involved in people's property though. Collecting rainwater is apparently another bone of contention.

    If people want to live "off grid", and it doesn't demonstrably affect others, than I don't see why it's an issue. But apparently it is.

    @BPR
    People will more often than not, recoil from any concept that's pushed at them repeatedly. Even if it's with evidence. That's the simple practicality of it. If you feel you can live your life in a different way, then that's what you should do. If people can't see the merit in it, then it's unlikely you're going to convince them otherwise.

    Max Planck's quote is appropriate I think.

    A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

    It may seem defeatist to some. But I think it's a practical observation of human nature.



  5. #25
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    With this tech, and radioactive waste,
    We can make indestructible smart phones that power themselves.

    https://3dprint.com/146562/diamond-3d-printer-lockheed/

    For every one you see arguing, there are 9 whom understand and take to heart.

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  6. #26
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    Not long now till the end fallacy that is planned obsolescence.
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  7. #27
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    So Begins the diamond age
    https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/0...unning-at.html



    and also check out


    Break it and remake it - Wrectified
    If you cut off a head, the hydra grows back two.
    "headless upbge"



  8. #28
    we can't decrease the population we need soldiers to fight wars.we need people for space exploration.What if we do it and other countries do not do it.they would have a bigger army than us.



  9. #29
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lostscience View Post
    we can't decrease the population we need soldiers to fight wars.we need people for space exploration.What if we do it and other countries do not do it.they would have a bigger army than us.
    I don't see anything about population control in this thread, just BPR talking again about his vision of a global utopia and why it's (supposedly) the only valid direction for the world in general to go in. Your statement meanwhile would open up a can of worms that would derail the thread (as there's a number of people on this forum who simply see a forum thread title as a suggestion and would rather create an aimless topic flow to nowhere).
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
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  10. #30
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    the idea is no to reduce population,

    the idea is for each person to be self sufficient by printing devices that meet their daily needs, greatly reducing the consumption and destruction induced by the current systems.

    download and print a robot chef/gardner

    download and print modular aquaponics chambers

    push feedback like bug reports and branches/ upgrades back to the open source hardware network

    @ace
    and I say it is the best way forward, not the only.
    Last edited by BluePrintRandom; 16-Jul-17 at 15:15.
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  11. #31
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BluePrintRandom View Post
    @ace
    and I say it is the best way forward, not the only.
    You can't say that with absolute authority though because while it mentions real technology, it's still your personal opinion (just like the ideas from countless other futurists as to what their idea of an ideal world would be).

    Elon Musk's idea of a perfect world for instance doesn't necessarily involve Earth, but rather humanity building a perfect society on Mars. Others get the idea that utopia can only come if we relinquish our humanity altogether and become an interconnected blob of bits and bytes (driving the robots that replace us). Almost all of these people will insist that their ways are the best, even though it's also common for that type to omit details and possible challenges in order to avoid having to admit they might be wrong on something.

    Don't get me wrong on the 3D printing stuff, I would love to see the ability for people to print their own usable parts along with unique items for various solutions, but it will be a long time before we see printers able to print nanoscale electronic circuits and then the electronic product itself (even then, you would not only have the issue of doing it in a way that wouldn't take days, you would also need a way to store, handle, or even create the various materials your printer would need).
    Last edited by Ace Dragon; 16-Jul-17 at 15:43.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



  12. #32
    post 20 say's something about population control. unlest i misunderstood what blueprintrandom posted.Here is what bueprintrandom posted.


    Also, some care needs to be taken to limit overpopulation etc.


    Right now though, if a concerted effort were directed at popping everyone off grid and get them printing / iterating design / learning by doing and studying etc.


    This would disrupt most of the industries responsible for the destruction of the ecosystem.


    Apple does not want modular upgrades / repairable design and incremental improvements, they want to sell you more phones.


    Imagine of you yourself only used the contents of 1 system for your whole life, but had everything you needed,


    Each man should not leave a scar on the earth, we should leave a green patch of peace.



  13. #33
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    if you want a life worth living we don't need a population explosion for sure.

    there are enough people right now that we are killing most life on earth already.
    Last edited by BluePrintRandom; 16-Jul-17 at 21:43.
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  14. #34
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...cientists-warn

    A “biological annihilation” of wildlife in recent decades means a sixth mass extinction in Earth’s history is under way and is more severe than previously feared, according to research.
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  15. #35
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, it might be found that some of Earth's plant and animal life may not be near as fragile as anticipated.
    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-frm071417.php

    It's possible that the biosphere is a lot more resilient and adaptive against human activity than most people think.

    I placed my card down, is this thread about technology for a more DIY life or is it now about green politics?
    Last edited by Ace Dragon; 16-Jul-17 at 22:07.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



  16. #36
    now where would we all get these uber 3d printers? what about the "ink"?

    the worlds problem is greed, good luck changing that. people need to change so the world can change. no amount of technology will do that. truely, it will only make it worse.

    3d printers are fairly young, and already printing guns is the thing. the only gardening they will be used for is weed.
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  17. #37
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    Break it and remake it - Wrectified
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  18. #38
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Some of the elements found in electronics today include precious metals like Gold and rare earths. If what you recycle doesn't have enough of a rare metal to print a new device, where you are going to get it?

    As much as you dislike the idea of markets and commercialism, people are going to have to get these metals somehow, and they would likely be bought from various businesses selling them as 3D print materials. The only other (and far cheaper) option would be to find a way to actually turn alchemy into a real thing and literally turn one element into another (but such technology is likely a long ways off considering we don't know how that would be done).
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Adventures in Cycles; My official sketchbook



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