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Thread: Future of Blender as an industry tool

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by juang3d View Post
    Yes... and a lot of studios donīt use it either, in fact a lot of studios use something like substance painter and export textures instead of having to deal with plugins or with shader parameters inside the final scene.

    In any case, I understand what you say, and up to some point I agree, but there are simply some problems that will be solved IF the third party wants to solve it... or if something in the GPL is changed... or if the changes are tied to Cycles instead of Blender, wich is under the less restrictive Apache licensing scheme, but donīt ask me for details because I donīt know the details, so what I just said may have no sense at all.
    Substances are extensively used by games studios these days and I am seeing that they are being adapted more and more, e.g. in architectural visualization, because of the workflow advantages. Substances are great, because you can modify and adjust them interactively, but only if the plugin is integrated. The plugin does nothing else than providing the required images very fast.
    An integration into Cycles wouldn't make sense, it would need to be within Blender, such that the images are available for the viewport and also in Cycles. The GPL can not be changed, because every single developer who contributed code would need to agree with a change, which would be practically impossible to achieve. However, there might be workarounds.



  2. #22
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AlmaTalp View Post
    Without proper support and so much lacking capabilities Blender unfortunately never gonna make it.
    If the BF had several million dollars to spare, then maybe Blender could make it.

    In the end, that's another anchor that slated to keep the large studios away from Blender. It's very difficult to impossible to be the best (and as such only muster a state of being 'good enough', when (for example) a product has say, 50 major todo items to address weaker points and the money is there to tackle just 5 of them.

    The good news at least is that Blender is starting to see studios actually sponsor development, so it enables projects that otherwise couldn't be done from just the development fund and the cloud money.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
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  3. #23
    Originally Posted by Ace Dragon View Post
    The good news at least is that Blender is starting to see studios actually sponsor development, so it enables projects that otherwise couldn't be done from just the development fund and the cloud money.
    Yes, and those should get the attention they deserve.

    Edit: Whats wrong with blender support ? Most commercial applications I do have problems with gave me a "we are looking into this" / "sorry about that" in a 3-4 hour time range. With the hopes it might get fixed some time in future.
    In blender the time for a response was a bit longer, but at least I could pinpoint the problem in the code, and get a working version in less than a week. Only one bug was denied, (collada import error when it was pure python code) and this was due to the planed rewrite, but even then I could use my fix locally.
    Sorry but this "support" might be a thing for bigger studios, but for normal mortals blenders code fixing process is quite excellent. Especially considering its ressources
    Last edited by tischbein3; 13-Sep-17 at 11:56.



  4. #24
    @Ace

    Agree. On the other hand I have a good feeling about the future, although Blender has some problematic areas (like display performance or Cycles render speed), as the hardware goes faster and faster now it is able to commit like 99% of typical freelancer jobs, what could mean on long term that more and more people will use it. 15 years ago I had no chance to use anything else than Max for archviz projects; for now I would be able to do all the typical projects in Blender. That is a giant step forward, especially with Vray/Octane support (as far as I know Corona is still a non-official addon with lacking linked group support, etc.)

    In this situation and the change in archviz pipelines the lack of content could be a problem, but it seems that content makers started to address this issue (and I know some companies who will port their apps to Blender, too).
    Blender + 3DS Max, GTX 1070 + RX 480



  5. #25
    Finally!!!

    Some positive words!!



    Yes, Blender has some problems, like any other software, but BTW, I don't understand why Support may be a problem, the BF could give paid support service & development to big studios...

    isn't that what Red Hat Linux does?

    You can use redhat but their business is in support, so the software is free, but the expertise to develop and fast-fix, meaning changing the order of importance of the bug list to fix and having dedicated people to those "paid" fixes in parallel with the standard developers, for red had has been a great business model, it may be a great model for Blender, with the condition that the fixes and improvements paid for the companies goes into Blender public as they are developed.

    BTW just a side note, majority of people want to learn Maya for animation, and that majority of animators dream to animate in Pixar, and some of them does, but you know what... in Pixar animators don't use Maya... that is where the industry standard goes for the big companies, they can teach their man power if they want, the can develop if the want, and they do teach and develop... so no standard for them IMHO.

    Cheers!



  6. #26
    'Could' and for 'big companies' is not the same that a freelancer could easily get support.
    It is not a coincidence that some of as would like to fund feature-based development and would pay for it.
    Blender + 3DS Max, GTX 1070 + RX 480



  7. #27
    Like I always told, the only problem with Blender for industry is the GPL. Without this license we will see a lot of plugins, improvements making a true ecosystem of software that a 3D suite needs.

    But like it's impossible... I don't know if at least somebody tried it.



  8. #28
    Originally Posted by AlmaTalp View Post
    'Could' and for 'big companies' is not the same that a freelancer could easily get support.
    It is not a coincidence that some of as would like to fund feature-based development and would pay for it.
    But you can do that already!

    Organize a crowdfunding with clear targets, ask some developers for a quote for specific features and time-frames, publish that crowdfunding, once you reach the targeted fund, hire the developer and that's it.

    Not everything needs the Blender Foundation to be done, I think BF should follow wichever path they decide, but others can add to that path without a problem, now that feature may be included in master or not, it depends on several things, but at least you could have one feature developed that later on can be included and continued by other devs or by the same dev that created it if the dev likes it.

    You can already do that, but it requires effort and work of course

    Cheers.



  9. #29
    Member heavypoly's Avatar
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    I've used blender for concept design work at Sony Pictures Animation. Blender has proven to be great for concept / preproduction work and now I'm trying to bring it more into the production pipeline on a smaller animation project. It's an uphill battle to go against well entrenched Maya, but I think for projects starting a pipeline from scratch Blender is the way to go.



  10. #30
    If the feature is not supported by BF, it needs permanent efforts and funding which could cost very easily more than a license of a paid app.
    So paid development makes sense if it goes to trunk.
    Also there are _basic_ problems could not be addressed by 3rd party developers without BF like viewport performance with thousands of objects and so on.
    Blender + 3DS Max, GTX 1070 + RX 480



  11. #31
    Good to hear that!
    Blender + 3DS Max, GTX 1070 + RX 480



  12. #32
    I think the future blender lives as a plural state
    1. modelling: Latest Development for Fluid Designer
    2. VFX: [Custom Build] Blender Fracture Modifier
    3. rendeing: an official Blender
    4. game engine: some app

    so the question is "what is the future of Blender as industry tools"



  13. #33
    To reiterate some of points in threads like this:

    1) In searching for the golden "industry standard" let's not forget that development is an evolutionary process with constrains of reality.

    2) Changing the license would replace one issue with an another one. Strenghts and weaknesses differ, but there is no magic bullet. (Blender was closed source in it's beginnings)

    3) The differences between wishful thinking and proposals. If you ask someone to dedicate time at solving an issue you care about be prepared to do the same. An idea is not enough. Think about how it will fail. How it fits. Be prepared for iteration on it with the feedback and aquired knowledge about the issues. Or you can post on twitter about it. It seems that all the world's problems are being solved like that.

    4) Compromises are not defeats nor corrupting a wish. Most of the time they are a sign of cooperation. Sometimes can lead to a stalemate but so can every other approach. Mistakes will be made but that doesn't mean that the sky is falling down.

    5) Defining priorities - in a system with limited resources decisions have to be made. Those can sound arbitrary at times, but without information about the reasons behind them - they all potentially do. Try to understand before rushing to protest with why X and not Y.

    6) Even maintaining the status quo is not something that grows on trees, nevertheless is often taken for granted. To put things in context:
    Let's say that the average time to close a valid bug report is 1 hour (which is a guesstimate - some bugs are easy to solve few minutes like typos in code that are easy to spot, some can take days or need a complete rewrite of some areas).
    789 bugs equals to 789 hours which is around twenty (40 hour long) work weeks. Just bugs. For one release.

    7) Something will always be not right. If not implemented, when implemented, when changed, when removed, when added back.

    8) Financing is important but also is the system behind it: maintainability in the long run, managing expectations and strings attached.

    9) The future is uncertain. If we all knew it Biff would made 10 cents with the Sports Almanac in total. However:

    10) A new similar thread will be made on BA that may or may not be closed.



  14. #34
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    The AMD partnership ... which if I were AMD I would further ... is a greenlight. What is the future of Blender?

    <span>



  15. #35
    Member GogoDisco's Avatar
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    I recently made a big decision to go Blender after much research. I'm barely a month old Blender noob.

    My prediction is Blender will be as relevant as Max Maya C4D Houdini in 10 years time - as an All-in-One animation production suite. Not for big studio projects, but as the number one go-to for small indie production units of 1 to 10 members.

    Blender will continue to be as relevant as ZBrush 3Dcoat Modo for DCC (digital content creation).

    Game engines branches will be up there in top 10 - if not already top 5 in some areas.


    So... to echo the opinion of post #7, if one is not looking for a CG studio job, just want to make 3D art, or animations, well, learn Blender. And support devs and reward the top addon producers in anyway you can, of course.
    Solo artist & intermediate CG generalist. Speaks fluent ZBrush Daz iClone Carrara. Win10 VR-ready system



  16. #36
    Member cgstrive's Avatar
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    Fundamental pillar of 3D is MODELLING. This is an app independent process where Blender absolutely excels. Just as other apps(e.g ZB, Modo, 3DCoat) have become dominant by offering novel, better ways to prior industry standards, Blender will too increasingly carve out a stronger foothold for itself. I have used it on asset creation for several AAA games and I know people from big studios have individuals doing so as well. In that regard the 2.8 update with Eevee and recent tools such as WN are a great step forward!

    /// Of course I would welcome permanent integration of Beveled corners as well as Mesh Fusion like booleans that would turn Blender into a hotspot for modelers. After all who here has not heard of Mesh Fusion nor would not want to faster, simpler and have a lot better output? I bet it can be done with <1000 lines, just need a developer to take a look at that thread seriously.


    This of course is followed by strong Rendering. Cycles is probably the most feature filled, deeply integrated GPU render engine on market. Others appear great but fall flat soon after you try to render something else than a rotating teapot. In that regard I am certain as it evolves, it will become more and more appealing for smaller animation production companies as well as for visualization (e.g design, arch etc). It already is.

    I would like to see Blender move more into VFX industry, but a lot needs to be done there starting by supporting OpenVDB and perhaps having their own ICE like system. Pretty sure if ICE/Fabric Engine like functionality would be part of Blender it would not be a question. Industry is asking for it. Then again it's hardly a priority and would require a lot of resource to make it happen. In my view choices Blender has made for development prioritization are optimal and affect, benefit the largest possible user group. OpenVDB though should be added sooner or later.

    I do not envision Blender replacing strong pipelines in established animation production studios as they are known to use their own tech and very elaborate, often aged pipelines. Then again I am not sure it's something to be worried about. For many people Maya, Max have become the final destination of asset assemble just as Clarisse or even UE which challenge the common ancient paradigms.

    Lastly it's also about userbase and momentum as they form the workforce of tomorrows studios. I have a feeling that most artists who know both Blender and Maya or Max, find it hard to use either of these after (e.g for modeling). Then again most artists find it very hard to switch and start using Blender (e.g controls, maybe initial aesthetics, some parts take 5 clicks instead of 2 etc). Hope to see things evolve in that regard.

    This is just my personal opinion.
    Last edited by cgstrive; 14-Sep-17 at 02:48.



  17. #37
    As long as Blender keeps its exotic navigation system, it won't go very far. Every 3d software got more or less the same streamlined system (Maya) or offer the possibility to switch easily. It's VERY important because that's how people (outside of the blender community) are used to work.
    It's a shame because the software got lots to offer.



  18. #38
    Originally Posted by joebount View Post
    As long as Blender keeps its exotic navigation system, it won't go very far. Every 3d software got more or less the same streamlined system (Maya) or offer the possibility to switch easily. It's VERY important because that's how people (outside of the blender community) are used to work.
    It's a shame because the software got lots to offer.
    Every time that I read that I think what people talk... except maya, what programs use the same navigation shortcuts?



  19. #39
    Member pitiwazou's Avatar
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    Each program have it's own navigation shortcuts and you can change it in each program, same as blender :/



  20. #40
    'Blender will continue to be as relevant as ZBrush 3Dcoat Modo for DCC (digital content creation).'

    ZBrush is 'mainstream', 3DCoat, MODO are marginal apps.

    'Fundamental pillar of 3D is MODELLING. This is an app independent process where Blender absolutely excels.'

    Where Blender excels is the speed of the modeling, not the features.

    'Just as other apps(e.g ZB, Modo, 3DCoat) have become dominant by offering novel, better ways to prior industry standards, Blender will too increasingly carve out a stronger foothold for itself.'

    Speed is not everything. No parametric modeling, no non-destructive workflow. Adding these will a give a boost to Blender's reputation.


    'This of course is followed by strong Rendering. Cycles is probably the most feature filled, deeply integrated GPU render engine on market. '

    I agree with the integration as Cycles is the part of Blender. But does it matter? I think no.

    Feature filled? I don't think so. It offers incredible freedom on writing your own shaders, I agree with that.
    But Cycles is slow, cannot be scaled to the task.


    'Others appear great but fall flat soon after you try to render something else than a rotating teapot. '
    What?)))
    'I have a feeling that most artists who know both Blender and Maya or Max, find it hard to use either of these after (e.g for modeling)'

    It always depends on the task.When I knew what I wanted to do and it was asset modeling, I chosed Blender for the speed. When I wanted archviz where the model needed constant modification, I chosed Max.
    Blender + 3DS Max, GTX 1070 + RX 480



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