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  1. #21
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    Originally Posted by cekuhnen View Post

    great that Ton has no issue pushing Blender through another UI face lift.
    Eactly. I'm quite happy about that too.



  2. #22
    Member Toka's Avatar
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    I think the Beer Baron quote pointing out the distinction between "difficult to learn" and "tedious to use" is good.

    Making creative work to a high level has always been hard and always will be. It’s hard to learn an instrument. It’s hard to learn any evolved and advanced form of dance. Be it ballet or hip hop. It is hard to draw beautifully and clearly. It’s hard to sculpt and paint as well and takes a lot of dedication and effort. It’s hard to animate traditionally with drawings. I know because that’s how I started out. It’s hard to build high quality models with real world materials. I see this now first hand from my brothers museum model commissions. The massive research he needs to put in. The constant search for the right materials for a particular effect.

    It’s hard to animate with puppets and stop motion. Not to mention you need to be in a dark room all day. Now it’s got a bit easier with frame grabbing technology and it’s even possible to lay in block outs and key poses with puppets as with hand drawn and digital. But in the past practitioners like Ray Harryhuasen would animate complex Dynamation sequences straight ahead one frame after another. Not seeing the result until the film was exposed. And with just their own intense concentration and innate sense of timing to lean on. All day looking at a still figure and imagining it as one frame of a continual fluid movement.

    Digital art and animation is always going to be hard because in so many ways it sort of moves the goal posts. Due to the precision and fluidity of CGI. Any human fingerprint imperfection or flaw that would typically add expression to more traditional, real world material organic creations. This sort of thing will normally appear as a glaring flaw in CGI.
    It's so easy to make bad and ugly CGI. As a medium I think it is one the harshest and most unforgiving imaginable. Surely the hardest thing of all in CGI is to invest it with a tactile and relatable warmth and expression. Bringing back in that organic human emotional touch. Something that comes naturally when using real world materials. Where you will always have a sense of the hand or rather soul of the person who made it. With CGI you are most often literally tightrope walking over the uncanny valley almost every time you try to make a bold creative move.

    So it’s always going to be hard I think. And as the tools and possibilities continue to develop. So too will the ambition and standards expected of the practitioner’s. And with the tools. The interfaces will improve and change but usability will always be playing catch up with innovation to a large extent.

    ZBrush is a good example. It changed the industry and how CG models are designed and created. The innovation trumped the interface. The interface is still playing catch up. But ultimately it was the innovation that was more important.
    With regards ZBrush. I think a lot of misunderstandings come from the fact it is so free form. I still think it's clearly far more of an artists app than a techie's app. The interface can be confusing if you just want a quick in and out texturing and detailing app granted. But it offers a huge and vast multitude of options and workflows. Almost like a big complex box of traditional art tools.
    If you buy a set of traditional sculpting tools many of them will seem confusing at first and might not get used much even when you know what they are for. But you are normally still glad to have them to hand.
    Last edited by Toka; 16-Apr-18 at 08:15. Reason: Typos



  3. #23
    I find it a bit ironic that a CTO of one of the worse renderers in terms of usability talks about usability

    I suspect they are still living in a bit of a bubble of how renderers were utilized specifically in VFX field between years ~2000-2010. What he is showing in the presentation as revolutionary are things that have been daily bread and butter for users of intuitive renderers like Corona, Octane and to some degree even Cycles for a few years now.

    Also, quite a few of the statements in his slides are again only true in the context of VFX studios that have been living in the technological workflow bubble up until a few years ago.

    So the feeling I am getting out of that presentation is that they've missed the train, and they are trying to catch up by implementing ideas that are already mainstream in modern renderers.
    Last edited by rawalanche; 16-Apr-18 at 08:25.



  4. #24
    Member xrg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Toka View Post
    I think the Beer Baron quote pointing out the distinction between "difficult to learn" and "tedious to use" is good.

    Making creative work to a high level has always been hard and always will be. It’s hard to learn an instrument. It’s hard to learn any evolved and advanced form of dance. Be it ballet or hip hop. It is hard to draw beautifully and clearly. It’s hard to sculpt and paint as well and takes a lot of dedication and effort. It’s hard to animate traditionally with drawings. I know because that’s how I started out. It’s hard to build high quality models with real world materials. I see this now first hand from my brothers museum model commissions. The massive research he needs to put in. The constant search for the right materials for a particular effect.
    Those examples seem to be skills that are difficult to master, but the tools themselves aren't difficult to use. Learning to draw well is difficult, but a pencil is trivial to use. Learning to play music is difficult, but a piano is trivial to use---even cats can do it!

    Mastering CG Art will always be difficult, but I don't see any reason the software needs to be difficult to use.
    My Blender Tutorials | look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!



  5. #25
    As a reminder..
    You got 10 kinds of people those who understand binary and those lazy who never try to learn other systems.
    And nine people on BA discussing it



  6. #26
    Originally Posted by rawalanche View Post
    ..What he is showing in the presentation as revolutionary are things that have been daily bread and butter for users of intuitive renderers like Corona, Octane and to some degree even Cycles for a few years now.
    I agree. There have been a lot of interesting things happening in the render engine scene recently - with a big push for a faster 'artist friendly' workflow.

    Here are Chaos Groups take on it - with their talk concerning the next generation Vray (from the recent Nvidia GTC 2018).
    (Have a active ignore list, so there are comments in a thread I don't see)



  7. #27
    Member theoldghost's Avatar
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    Is there some disconnect here. Mastering some complicated software doesn't make an artist. Even through some artist have done exactly that over the years. And, quite a few along the way actually pursued the study of art to go along with their technical expertise.

    Regardless, the creative mind will raise to the top. Which explains why I was shipbuilder. And, yes I'm familiar with the often repeated phase in any art school; "If it was easy everyone would be doing it' Then throw in where Art meets business and you have a sure enough cluster fuck that some of you are all to familiar with.

    My point is the employers evidently want programs that will speed up workflow and not hinder that creative mind I referred to. And, they are going to get exactly that. Now Ace I believe had a point to where do you draw the line. And, that should be interesting in the coming years. Just how many buttons or sliders simply disappear. Interesting times ahead in my old mind.
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