Abandoning ship, but... to where?

Game Engine Game Engine Support and Discussion
1

So, I’m gonna get some flak for this, and @Monster (or another capable moderator) please shut this down if it gets off-track. But uhm, BGE is shriveling on the vine.

So, I want to open up a serious, mature, civil discussion about that thing people are worried about: where to go next.

Some will want to stay with BGE through thick and thin. And personally, I hate that alternative. It’s stubborn, unproductive, and unhealthy. Plus, if you want anyone to take you or your work seriously, you really need to be open to moving beyond dead tools. (I’m sure some people will take this as an insult, but… please don’t. It’s not intended to be such.)

The Interactive Mode is concerning. The details we have about it are vague at best, and contradictory at worst. I’m not willing to put my eggs into another basket like that. Interactive Mode isn’t something I want to look forward to.

I guess that leaves non-Blender alternatives. Let’s talk about the big three, as far as “game engines” go: Unity, Unreal, and Godot.

Unity is a BIG change in complexity versus BGE. For starters, you have two choices of scripting language; C# and Java. Both of which have their pros and cons, but for someone like me that can barely handle coding in Python, it’s a hard pill to swallow. Unity also has a bigger focus on scene structure and the like versus BGE, which can run everything on a single scene if you want it to. It’s also got that whole “not able to do multiple different things in one piece of software” thing that BGE users tend to dislike about other things.

Unity, however, is also considered an industry standard, and tends to be a go-to for anyone that wants to make a game. And it’s got a HUGE library of successful titles, from small indie darlings like Hand of Fate, to big-money AAA titles like Hearthstone. Most would likely recommend jumping into Unity if they’re serious about wanting to make games.

[Unreal stuff goes here, I know more or less nothing about it…]

And finally, Godot. In my opinion, a bridge between Unity and BGE. GDscript is based on Python, so if you’re a BGE veteran it at least feels good to code in. And it has just enough of that “industry standard” UI to let you feel more comfortable with learning, while not completely alienating you like the jump from BGE to Unity likely would.

It’s a lot lower level than BGE. Getting a character to move requires some knowledge of vector math (though GDscript has functions to handle the calculation, you still need to know which calculation you should do in a certain situation), and a lot of things BGE gives you on a platter, you have to write up yourself. But if you already do that in BGE, that might not be too much of a problem for you.

So uh, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep this civil and mature. DON’T attack other users. DON’T make things personal. And above all, please, PLEASE just listen to what other people are saying, and don’t just label them something because you disagree with them.

2

I am moving toKetsji

:3

we don’t have to go anywhere and nothing has changed*

Bf did nothing for blender for a very long time.
them deleteing there repo basically means nothing.

3

of those three engines, unreal seems to be the most capable, but comes with a steep learning curve and lots of closed software.

unity feels messy to me. C# is another barrier.

i just started with godot, and its shows great promise. i really hope to have time to spend digging in more. i just wish it had a better importing system then requiring everything to be mashed into a single folder.

godot GDScript isnt ‘based’ on python. it draws syntax inspiration from it. functionally, its almost nothing like python.

4

Ketsji is just UPBGE with a new logo. Not a single line of code touched since the fork and probably never will. As a security copy is fine, but I don’t think it’s worth for anything else. That’s not entirely bad, some people are fine with outdated software anyway, Haidme did his games on 2.24 was it? In any case, before even Python 3 was supported, and he did pretty well.

so if you’re a BGE veteran it at least feels good to code in

Not really. Coding on a non general-purpose language never feels good.

I would really go the Unreal Engine way, it’s pretty amazing and now they even are open source, you need a powerful computer though. If you want to do simple stuff though I would go with unity. In any way, if I were to stay with BGE/UPBGE/Ketsji, I would use the library I rolled some years ago (and improve it a bit), but in no way I would do a game with naked BGE.

Also, depending on the kind of games, if you do 2D stuff there are a lot of other good alternative game engines out there.

5

That’s a great point. GameMaker Pro and RPGMaker get tossed around a lot, and I have friends who use the former and make some REALLY impressive stuff with it.

6

Ketsji - UPBGE - I am getting a bit confused : no real problems as can still make maritime routes up to 2.79, for a few years and make them available for download if people keep 2.78c or 2.79 installed, whch I imagine would be available for years to come.

Would be interesting also to follow developments relating to the BGE fork or whatever called if there is a chance of them becoming pemanent.
Waiting for Blender updates into the future is not too appetising and not really into trying to learn Godot.
Is Ketsji the latest fork with a prospect of gaining permanency?

Barry

7

youle is merging the 2.79 commits (pbr glsl node and more) next

check issues*

upbge could not accept pulls etc.

8

Dislaimer:I have never used BGE - but I have used other game engines that eventually were abandoned (Cocos2d - there’s different versions still around here and there).

If I decide to jump back into game dev, then I would go with Unity.
Lots of nice tutorials here to get an overview:
https://www.raywenderlich.com/category/unity

9

this thread has nothing to do with the BGE, UPBGE, ‘judo jitsu’ or any other BGE based project. its about experiences with OTHER game engines.

not every thread with the text “BGE” should turn into a bge fanboy war.

10

insinuation of anything changing for bge like

the ship is sinking implies bge is going away.

I am saying, it is not going anywhere.

Also this is the blender game engine section.

11

As I am involved in using the Game Engine probably for the next few years at least, using 2.78c/2.79, as mentioned it would be interesting to follow ‘Blender Game Engine’ developement whether Ketsji or whatever. So similar question but not what to follow next but which sub.branch of the BGE has some prospects of permanency and which should I follow.

I realise the amount of coding can be huge and I know ‘nowt’ about coding but it would be interesting to follow developments related to bge… i.e. Ketsji/ ubge. or whatever, etc.

I have looked at Godot etc and decided Godot and all others not for me as current bge works well enough with logic bricks and timeline for what I make, i.e making 25 km srtm2/.hgt …animated routes around the UK coastline and it works fine whatever others say.

Games are of no real interest to me.

Thanks Barry

12

Keep whining guys! You just don’t get it, aren’t you? :slight_smile:
Right now(from two months), I’m working in the biggest worldwide mobile game company(you all know the name) and guess what, their engine is not updated since 2010!(except the support for the newest mobile devices)
Still the game I’m working on(released October 2017) makes 6 figures income per month.
As I said it hundreds of times - the engine is just the pencil in the hands of the artist.
Who cares if BF deleted BGE, use another engine, use 2.79…the important thing is just to make good games.
Nobody here or in Unreal forums or Unity will make a AAA game soon, check newest Steam games. I check them on daily basis. 99% of them(made in Unity/Unreal/ you name what) can be done in BlenderGE 2.50, with little to no effort and this will remain that way for at least several years.
But you just don’t get it, keep whining instead of making games. :wink:

PS. Moving to Unreal…Jesus, if you have ever made a full-fledged game, you will know that using the Unreal blueprints will get you nowhere, you have to know how to program in C++ and that’s a show stopper for at least 5 years if you want to learn the language.
Same with Unity…you have to know C#(I have 6+ experience with this engine)
Godot…? well it is an option, if you are willing to learn Haxe for a year or so, but still in terms of 3D Godot is no better than the current state of BGE, it is useful for 2d games mostly and that’s it. (Please don’t argue. If you argue, I will request an example you made, that is better than what I can do in BGE)
Gamemaker, Cocos 2d…etc you will have to learn JS,C#,C++ ect. if you want to make an actual game, and not a pathetic excuse of a prototype.
If you want to make a game(not testing the engine capabilities) and you already know BGE Python, that’s the most viable(and the best) option for you for at least a couple of years. :slight_smile:

13

I don’t. I don’t play mobile games. I have a computer for that, and mobile games are shit 90% of the time, the ones that aren’t you have to pay for them (instead of torrenting with PC). In my opinion, mobile games are, by all means, a scam.

PS: Also, someone said it’s “comfier”. That’s bullshit. Playing a game with no physical controller (keyboard/joystick/etc) and with a 5" screen that you have to fucking hold. The only ones that could find that comfy are the ones that don’t spend any time on computers because they bought a phone for fucking 900$ and have no money left to buy a PC. Stupid normalfags.

Godot…? well it is an option, if you are willing to learn Haxe for a year or so

I think you got confused here. Godot is the 2D Good, 3D bad, Python-like shit. You probably mean Armory, though it’s slow as fuck and not free.

If you want to make a game(not testing the engine capabilities) and you already know BGE Python, that’s the most viable(and the best) option for you for at least a couple of years. :slight_smile:

If you already know Python, and you know it well (OOP, Containers, lambdas, for each, etc…) as you are implying, then learning any other language will be fucking easy. The only ones that will have it harder (and the ones that are still making games in BGE) are the ones that do not know Python or any other language.

14

Yes, you are right. It’s just that we are looking things at different perspectives.
If you are making games professionally - the most important factors are time and money. Nobody cares about the engine or language you use.
If you can switch from BGE to Godot in a week and start generating money again, that’s fine. But if you are generating enough money using BGE and switching will take you time and you will lose money - that’s not fine.

15

Godot is the 2D Good, 3D bad, Python-like shit.

I use Godot engine for a 2 years now and mainly 3D…
…and I’ll tell you this…looks like you don’t know what you’re talking about;)

16

Well last time I checked (2 years ago XD) it was bad for 3D. Maybe now it has improved. Still, its language is Python-like shit… though I just found that they are going to support C# soon. Looks like I’ll have to reconsider my opinion on this engine.

17

2 years may as well be 100 in game engine years. Godot these days could likely give the previous iterations of UE and Unity a run for their money.

Also, holy damn there’s a lot of self delusion in this subforum. OP asked a very simple question with some very simple stipulations, and it took literally 0 posts to derail.

OP, the learning curve of a new engine will always be sharp, but not anywhere near as sharp as anyone here is implying. With a solid base in analytical problem solving (and a few Khan Academy courses in vector math /linear algebra if you want to be really fancy about it) you could be up and running with a good looking prototype in a week or less of after work time in any of your posted options, even faster if you start with a template. If you ever dabble in 2D or even a bit of 3D, I’d also recommend having a look at GDevelop. I don’t think you’ll find a simpler logic and scripting engine in the world for non-coders. And if you really, truly cannot tear yourself away from Blender game development and you have some patience, check out Armory. It’s in its early days, but it holds a lot of promise, and has a great visual scripting and logic core.

18

If Any more BA trolls show up down here in the game engine section,
we will need to build a bridge to commemorate it.

what gaurds against trolls again?
Do I need a Gimley?
goats?

dwarf riding a goat?

say someone is making games with bge, and they are good at it.

Maybe they should do that?,

19

“PLEASE keep this civil and mature”
Some people just can’t follow simple instructions.

Anyways,
Godot has improved a lot in 2 years, a lot of people got involved and it’s one of the most active GitHub repos. You guys should definitely a try it!

20

I’ve been using Godot for the past few months as part of my work (ie 8-hours-per-day 5-days-per-week), and the 3D does have issues such as:

  • Annoying pipelines (I spent the first week or so getting the blender-exporter into usable shape)
  • Really Poor performance [with wontfix tendencies] I have to put it onto vertex shaded mode to get it to run on an integrated GPU. Fortunately we ship end-products with high-end-hardware rather than games.
  • Control over physics is way less (eg no collision margin config)

But, I do like:

  • That it took me about a week to learn
  • The node based scenetree (there are a few odd choices, but most are OK)
  • Inheritance of scene files
  • That everything is a text file, so it VC’s rather nicely (after my PR to fix the .import file)
  • The UI tools
  • Lights can be created/deleted them as needed

Things I find limiting/annoying:

  • Can’t do multipass rendering with the viewports (which was my favourite trick with BGE’s RenderToTexture)
  • I miss being able to do proper programming python. You can’t include functions from one file in another other than by inheritance. No dict comprehensions. No pulling in random libraries for hard-to-program tasks. I’m going to be looking seriously at doing significant amounts of the development in C#. Also, no IDE understands GDScript, so I had to work on the integration.
  • Had to set up a build pipeline to improve model workflow. Current stats on the project include me writing 2000 lines of python boilerplate and 2000 lines of gdscript. This is not a good ratio.

I’m not happy with the amount of boilerplate development I’ve had to do over the past few months. I’ve spent about the same time working on the engine and frameworks as working on the actual project. When I did an evaluation of the amount of development we’d need to put into Godot over the next year, our CEO said “Why did we switch from BGE again?”

That said, the licensing terms for every other engine didn’t fit our use-case, and godot is tiny compared to the behemoth of other “modern” engines.