What rhymes with Linux?.... ah yes... Sucks...

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1

Could be a bit harsh there. Let me explain.

I’ve been weighing up switching away from Windows towards a linux distrib. Couple of reasons really:
It’s free
Most decent 3D/compositing apps run on linux
Very stable
Less prone to spyware etc…

With a spare 13gb drive lying around, I thought I’d play with some of the distribs on a blank system for the sake of it. I have now got the following to fiddle with:

Ubuntu 5.10
Mandrake 2005 LE
Gentoo 2005.1
Suse 10.0 Eval

I’ve decided strongly against Gentoo because from what I hear, everything you plan to use you have to download and compile. %|

So that left Ubuntu/Mandrake and Suse.

Suse is downloading as I speak so that left Ubuntu and Mandrake.

I’ve since tried both of these installs on my 13gb drive.

When, and I do mean this seriously, did ANY linux distrib ever become a damn site easier to install than the applications you intend to use on it afterwards?

It’s friggin shocking.

Within 20-30 mins a time, I can put a complete working Ubuntu or Mandrake OS on my system. Complete with network card detection, functioning sound and internet.

So if it takes 20-30 mins to put the damn OS on the system, why oh why is it so damn difficult to install programs?

Example.

I get a working OS, but no video drivers. So I visit Nvidia, download the linux files for video and Nforce. Then what? I try what it says and then the rabbit hole gets not only deeper, but darker.

So I think… ooh, I’ll try blender.

Same again, I download the linux blender files. Can I run or install it… nope.

Then I think… jahshaka.

Nope

Then I think I’m being too demanding, so I try to update firefox.

Nope.

I think it’s a shocking state of affairs when it’s harder to use and install programs than it is to get an OS running.

I WANT to use linux, especially Ubuntu. I LIKE the look and feel of it all, but this is why I think linux loses out a lot.

So I’m done now with my rant. Seems the linux community has made it really easy to install linux with a complete disregard to helping users install programs they want to use :<

(Apologies if I offend any linux folk in here, but as a newbie to it, I find very little to commend any of the distribs just now.)

2

Have you tried using Synaptic Package Manager? I don’t have Ubuntu installed on my system anymore (I switched to Kanotix) but I believe Ubuntu (as well as most Debian derivatives) support Synaptic. Installing a new app is as easy as a single click. Another option for Knoppix / Kanotix users is “Klik”. Same idea as Synaptic, but with a single click a “pre-packaged” app is installed that can be used when using a live CD.

If you’re having problems with Ubuntu, give Kanotix a try. It’s basically a HD install optimized version of Knoppix (although it’s really much more than that).

3

hi khahuna.

Okey, first off I’m writing this from within Ubuntu 5.10. Got it installed (the easy part).

I’ve let the update manager update stuff through the Synaptic front-end. I’ve also enabled multiverse and universe from within Synaptic as per the user guide. (I get errors about urls not existing or something, but there are more packages available than before)

I know what the synaptic thing does but I can’t see how it relates to me downloading tarballs and installing them.

For instance, Blender 2.37a is listed in synaptic, but how would that possibly help me to use 2.40 for instance?

I really can’t understand this installation of programs lark. I really really don’t want to throw in the towel. I’ve got nothing against Linux as a concept and it’s frustrating when I consider that my entire youth was spent being brought up with Amigas which were Cli/Shell underpinnings with Workbench.

This shell/GUI Linux thing shouldn’t be as much hassle as it is for me.

I’m open for suggestions, ideas, links, whatever. I’m gonna give this linux thing a week or so and if I can’t get comfortable, sadly linux will lose a potential fan %|

4

personally I think you are just stupid and would like things handed to you on a plate. Linux isn’t liek windows it’s different you have to learn how it works to get everythng running smoothly, it’ll take longer, but in the end you’ll have a fast smooth secure system that you could leave running for years.

Have you learned how the package managers for those distro’s work? Did you look around for something that may not have been as easy to install, but was easy to maintain? There are many things you need to consider, of the distro’s you named you cna throw out all but ubuntu and gentoo, gentoo you don’t always have to compile from source, using ebuilds or whatever they are called now. Ubuntu has a nice package manager, synaptic, installation is one click, system upgrade is a few more. I would personally use something like archlinux (1st choice, I use it now) or slackware, both have good good binary package management systems, are clean, fast, and well maintained. Their other strong point is that, liek gentoo, they force you to learn quite a bit about linux when you install them. If you make it through the installation you have the skills to do prettymuch anything you will need to do.

5

I debated long and hard about making this post, because I knew I’d get someone like you coming along all high & mighty calling me stupid.

At least I AM looking at linux and it’s flavours. That’s MORE than can be said of many computer users these days.

I have never had any exposure to linux or unix and I don’t have a developers background either.

I have Ubuntu running. I can see synaptic. I can download tarballs, but can I see or find a plain english explanation of how it all ties together… no.

Ya know what. What’s the point of community forums and the folk in 'em, if all they’re gonna do is call people stupid for trying things for the first time. It’s counterproductive and actually puts people off even wanting to try. %|

6

software installation is easier on ubuntu than in windows.

windows:

  1. search the website of the program
  2. download the binaries
  3. run the executable
  4. select an installation path
  5. finish installation
  6. create a shortcut

linux (ubuntu):

  1. open up synaptic
  2. select the app you want to install
  3. click on Apply
  4. wait a few seconds
  5. ready

also, you do have A LOT more applications/software to be selected/installed in synaptic when you activate the universe/multiverse repositories (which is all listed on the ubuntu irc/forum/wiki … but yeah, linux is sooo hard, you actually have to do something on your OWN for it, omg, switch back to windows)

the reason for not having the 2.40 alpha blender in the repositories is because its ALPHA like said before, why should the ubuntu team add alpha software thats a potential risk for instability to the system???

if you want 2.4 alpha, go to the blender site and download the static linux version, extract it, open up a shell and browse to that folder and type ./blender thats all :confused:

if you are too lazy dont even try linux. also, if you just want a free windows, linux is not for you. linux is an alternative, not a free windows replacement!!

ps: such stupid threads like this one are created every day in ubuntu forums and everytime they talk about the same old shit. thats why the linux users will get pissed about people like you, its not their fault.

if the newbies who want to switch to linux just even want to do something themselves without having to annoy others to do the work and if they would use google, linux would have much more (happy) users.

damn it :<

7

well please don’t insult our dear os either

it’s counterproductive and puts off us trying to help you

[and I am now not motivated to try to explain why debian uses apt-get and the problems that it solves that windows doesn’t usually show [but windows does have these problems]]

8

So I visit Nvidia, download the linux files for video and Nforce

on ubuntu/debian:

sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx
sudo apt-get install nvidia-settings
sudo nvidia-glx-config enable

i.e. mantainers did it for you.

or alternatively - download with dependencies to a folder, cd to it and:
dpkg -i *

9

perhaps I was a bit harsh, but I get very annoyed when people ask for some rather simple info that can be found quickly on google or on the ubuntu site/wiki/forums. In the time you typed up the post you made, you could probably have found what you needed.

If you have synaptic and it downloads stuff, that’s it, just go to a terminal and type the app’s name that you just had synaptic download. I am not quite sure if it automatically adds a menu entry.

10

explain why debian uses apt-get and the problems that it solves
and how it can fuckup your os install if repository you install from isn’t mantained properly.

in theory that can’t happen if you install from dvd’s - which is the point of being mantained as it is. it’s nice they’re a conservative distro.

11

they force you to learn quite a bit about linux when you install them
ouch. personally I’d rather read the lfs book and leave the dirty details to the distro makers.

but, otoh I read about the speed improvements of the http://jackass.homelinux.org/ - jackass thing. after some math and price curve of computer parts - this may be an interesting option for setting a renderfarm (with dual PIIIs, f.e. - this should be dirt cheap).

12

PolygoneUK:

Here’s my fuel for the fire.

I’ve had Gentoo Linux installed on my boxes for 5 yrs, never had to reinstall ONCE and the OS, kernel and apps are bang upto date.

Linux will let you update your whole friggin distro (only advisable if your running ‘stable’) in less than three short simple commands that’s core OS and every app on your box (if you’ve gone the simple route through the distro’s package managment system) then just a few hand compiled apps seperately. Try that on winshite.

If you pick disto’s like SUSE then your gonna end up short of the Proprietary stuff like NVidia drivers. If your looking at Linux then you could have asked what disto is best for a total noob instead of bad mouthing a great OS.

13

If I could, I’d delete this thread. IF there are mods out there reading, please feel free to.

It was a bad idea posting. :-?

Gonna stick with Windows (for now).

14

[QUOTE
For instance, Blender 2.37a is listed in synaptic, but how would that possibly help me to use 2.40 for instance? [/QUOTE]

Once 2.40 is released then you can use your package manager to install it, we are still in alpha, and alpha2 only came out yesterday. If you want to install unstable software you can use the unstable debian branch, however realize that package managers generally take a couple of weeks after a release to package things so unless you are able and knowledgable enough to compile from source, it may be better for you to just wait.

LetterRip

15

to Tedi: They don’t make you learn that much :stuck_out_tongue: they do teach you things every system administrator will need to know though, like editing config files from the commandline, settind up rc.d, xorg.conf, etc…

16

http://packages.ubuntu.com/ … browse them, with all deps listed

http://packages.ubuntu.com/i-need-a-certain-package

will return a list of distros containing i-need-a-certain-package and dependencies. download to a folder and do the dpkg -i * thing.

or play with synaptic.

simple - could it get simpler?

if you get tired of typing ‘sudo’, log into root console.
-i = shorthand for install.

They don’t make you learn that much
less is more.

17

not always in the linux world :stuck_out_tongue: There are some skills that you will need with every distro that few teach nowadays.

18

Hello again. Thought I’d say that shortly before I went out today, I slapped in the Ubunut livecd to test tedi’s suggestion on loading things.

With the LiveCD I was able to download and get blender 2.40 running as per the instructions posted before. But when I tried it on an actual installation, it didn’t.

I’m going to try again though, now that I know blender has worked.

Since I can get video drivers on etc…, and I’m understanding the package manager, I think I’m making slow but steady progress regardless what others may think of my comments and approach to learning linux.

To get blender running on the liveCD I had to download some kind of lib package which I imagine is what the linux world calls a “dependency”.

Just trying to get some terminology right as I go along so help me if I go astray.

I plan to get Ubuntu back on, fresh and clean and then take what I’ve read in here so far and see where it takes me.

If I can get to the stage of having Blender, Wings, Nvidia video & sound drivers and possibly jahshaka, then that’ll be a good enough set of early goals to reach for.

19

Cool, and if you end up needing more help installing packages, I think synaptic has a faq/forum. Thats a very reasonable set of goals, and I am sure you will accomplish them.

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All hardware sucks, all software sucks, but some suck more than others.