2.5: How much risk in this project, will it become a grand step foward for Blender?

Okay we haven’t really talked about understanding if there’s any major factor in 2.5 being a risky move and whether the new Blender will be the best yet or still give reason to mostly use 2.4x or an app. from Autodesk?

There have been concerns over the months, some say 1 step foward and 3 steps back, let’s go over the previous concerns and how they were ironed out so far.

-The new color picker was considered a major step backward, but that was quickly made into something a bit more useful.
-The concern that the viewport optimization slowed down viewport drawing speed, something that was abated with replies from Brecht.
-Jumping between two contexts for tweaking textures, that was taken care of

The current concerns now is do we trust the developers enough to think they will take care of issues like the buggy macros, raytrace optimization reported to make the raytracer slower not verified, it seems few people have this problem, loopcut and other tools, ect… and make Blender 2.5 a grand beginning for Blender’s future? There has been a serious look at Blender’s roadmap as of recent and Ton has been trying to put together the big picture to move the project foward. Can we trust the developers? Are you confident of what Blender will become? Any thoughts?

…or become just another failure in the graveyard of open source projects.

Talk about optimism!

dont worry CD, the devs are smart people, they probably know what they’re doing

As far as I’m concerned, this sort of tabloid-style provocation does nothing to help the project.

I’m not massively concerned about 2.5. The functionality in Blender 2.49 will do me nicely for the foreseeable future.
And 2.5, even though it is a code re factor, is still a point release and should probably (IMO) be treated by the community at large as such. If it takes to Blender 2.54, 2.59b or 2.7 (some random numbers there) to come back with the same functionality as 2.49 then fine.
The software is free so I don’t think people can badger the developers for changes. Blender isn’t in an arms race with the commercial packages and even if it was, it’s rate of development is faster than those packages.

relevant to this thread: http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2009-September/024537.html

Propagandist much…I didn’t even read this thread, I’m sure you are getting quite a brow beating…I saw this and thought…“Man, CD really needs to do something with his time.”…lol

Blender will survive.
at first I was afraid, I was petrified…da da da
EDIT: After reading the thread I have to, for all intents and purposes, agree with Bliz and broken. Different points, but both statements are true &&(little code humor, I am a dork).

I added a disclaimer to the Raytrace optimization reported to be slower thing, as I found this may only apply to a small number of people.

I am a little bit scared about things like raytrace becoming even slower. But I also have a lot of faith in everyone who is trying to make Blender even better. And if something doesn’t work out, then they add a “chose algorithm” checkbox or totally discard the feature.

In my opinion there is not reason to doubt anything about Blender yet. What’s going on right now is building a new fundament for further development. This takes a lot of time and optimization and the devs should take their time to get the best result as possible.

I’d say let’s see what’s going on in 2-3 months when some interesting things get merged. It’s just like it was with the viewport optimization. There were some major bugs/performance issues but the developer was able to take care of them. Let’s just hope the devs are always able to remove all bugs, etc.

What I care about the most right now is UI related stuff like the toolbar and properties panel, which isn’t ideal at the moment. In my opinion open source can never break. Worst case is that only a small user group uses it.

You post too much cyborg dragon.

This thread really reeks of sensationalized trolling. I personally trust the developers, but at the same time I have been following the development closely as I fully intend to be using the software upon release. Seriously, on my computer Blender is the most used software, surpassing even my web browser. I’m sure it’s that way for anyone who is trying to use it to earn a living.

So when I see major things like the loopcut taking additional steps, the extra seconds needed to use the tool will eventually add up. And what other tools have I overlooked that are slower to use now?

What makes Blender’s modeling tools so much better than Maya’s (the program I swear I’m joined at the hip to) is that you can create the exact same model with fewer steps. Sure, it’s almost the same tools, but the tool that requires one hotkey followed by a mouseclick with visual feedback so you can see what the hell you’re doing is going to be vastly superior to the one that requires some verts selected, opening a screen full of checkboxes and dropdown menus, adjusting some sliders and confirming the edit.

What’s more, if the artist is worth their salt, you shouldn’t be able to tell at the end how they landed on the result that they did; the desired result is there and that’s all that a client or director cares about.

If the devs don’t make the tools productive, I won’t be able to leave work two hours early and come on these forums to bitch about it, and we don’t want that.

Great perspective.

I can sort of understand his worry about Blender though…

…me? I love Blender so much that I’m a well known Blender “kook” in Denmark by
now, so I can sort of appreciate the worry.

So how do I feel?

First, let me explain why I feel like I will tell you I feel (got that? :wink: ) Read on:

Lets rewind a bit, and take a look at where Blender started out.
It was a small - for internal use - modeling & editing & game-developing suite
that was relatively primitive in comparison to the big well known packages out
there, at the time!

When it was released (freed) to the public as GPL, then the developers came
rushing in to become a part of this “at the time” very bright piece of software
because it had a lot of potential, and developing something like this from
scratch would be much harder than working on what was already created.

With all these “then new” developers rushing in and contributing like
there where no tomorrow - Blender became HUGE. So huge in fact that
you could do entire productions with it - in a professional quality, and many
got their jobs in the industry with Blender (I am one of those).

Blenders success isn’t based on the fact that it’s free - it’s based on the
community contributions - and the many dev-geniuses that use Blender
as their personal “testing & proving grounds” for new innovative ideas, programming
skills and other reasons I’m sure they know better than me.

Blender 2.49:

Blender 2.49 has come a long way, it is an eclectic collection of developers
efforts, we have numerous features that are considered separate plug-ins
in other, bigger, commercial packages. All these features have their
ups and downs, some are better than their commercial counterparts
and some are inferior. This is what you get, take it or leave it - or develop it
if you think you can make it better, this is largely how it works.

Blender had an Achilles heel though, and that was considered both it’s force
and a problem. Personally I experienced that I could model twice as fast
as in 3dstudio max in Blender with that - more efficient interface, but many
beginners or people coming from other packages - had a really hard learning
curve - mastering Blender, this has been a much heated & debated discussion
over the many years, but as the features grew - there was no doubt, something
was needed to be done, otherwise - the features just won’t fit.

Blender 2.50

Blender 2.50 isn’t just about the interface, it was MEANT to be the big
interface change, but it became a huge daunting re-write, and new features
chugged along with the now maturing developers, this of course - creates
some major issues since Blender isn’t just developed in-house, but across
the borders - and when you’re making THIS much change to a now pretty
big piece of software, working together and controlling all the code, synchronizing
it all into a perfectly tuned piece of production software, is such a daunting
task - that I can only IMAGINE the organizational power behind this to be
an equally daunting task. Kudos to all of them for doing it, and following trough.

And thats why:

I’m a bit worried about it too. This is the BIGGEST Blender project so far, you
can imagine how hard it must be on a developer and the team working on the
same thing for so long, and so many changes that literally affect the ENTIRE CODE,
and with new things being incorporated at the same time when the backbone
also “morphs” with the changes taking place every day - then you come to

I’m in no way expecting a complete 2.50 in a couple of months, that would be
asking WAY too much, I’m seriously IMPRESSED how FAR and how WELL
the developers work together, and how FAR they’ve taken Blenders usability.

That brings me at rest, because - seriously - they’ve come this far, and believe me,
this will only be the beginning of a better piece of 3D software the world have seen.

I’m using the “SVN” dev. version all the time, and find it really HARD to go back
and use the old 2.49. So personally I can pretty much guarantee you all out
there that you’re in for the nicest Blender by far!

  • It’s getting very intuitive (yes, even more than before)
  • It’s workflow is actually improved by all the real-time features, you can
    now for example…adjust procedureal-textures & colors in real time while
    sliding the values, before…you had to “stop-and-check” if you had the right
    results, no more…everything is REALTIME.
  • The new realtime environment affects absolutely every aspect of Blender,
    and I guarantee you that you will love that, and you can combine more modifiers
    in far more creative ways than before - and STILL experiment realtime, some of them
    of course…will demand a modern computer, but hey - Blenders development shall
    not be hindered by “slow computers”. After all - it’s free, so now you can afford to
    spend all your money on the actual equipment :slight_smile:

Your worry about the colors & theme are easily laid to rest with the fact
that Blender will be completely theme-able, meaning that you’ll literally be able
to customize every aspect of Blender in time. Everyone can submit their own
idea of the “Perfect Blender Setup”, so you’ll have more fun than ever.

That was a long read - sorry about that - but that question deserved some attention imho.

Well what spurred this thread on was Madcow’s report on Jaguarandi’s raytracer being slower than vanilla 2.5, but now I tried it out and it was ultra fast for me.

Sorry if I offended or hurt anyone, this thread was supposed to act as a summarization debate of all the concerns and such about 2.5 ever since the first builds where you could push a button became available, but apparently I’m way too skewed to making everything sound like a tabloid:rolleyes:

Anyhoo, I edited the first post a little to make it sound a little less tabloid’ish

If you’re that concerned about it then why not just fork blender and run the development however you see fit?

Or at the very least maintain your own patched version that does things ‘correctly’. Hell, if you do a good enough job maybe you can dethrone Ton and become the new Blender Commissar.

Well considering, I personally think a fork is very highly unlikely because of how I have worked with some of the stuff in Blender 2.5, the realtime preview in the lamp drawing is just incredibly intutitive, like with arealamps, you can see the distance and square-size without even letting go of the slider.

I am not really upset with you CD…besides, it should not really matter what others think…when people feel like something needs to be said…it generally does. We, myself included, just need to exercise some tact.

I trust the developers and the project. No more words…:yes:

Talk about death, failure and its possibilities were always a taboo and topics that people never want to talk, may be by fear, may be because they are arrogant or too much optimist.

Many people said before “the developers know what they are doing” but the future of blender is beyond the c/c++ code.
Is here when we as users, devs and user/devs like me and others must to talk about the possibilities and opportunities/risk, succeed and failures.

This is not matter about trust, this is matter about consider possibilities, think, planning and do. With only trust, we can’t achieve and preserve nothing.

If you all see the amount of post of cybord dragon, you will notice that the only intention is about help to the projects, he really love this community, so it doesn’t has any of sensationalist.
“Can we trust the developers?” here is where CD wasn’t politically correct!

I think this the topic proposed by Cyborg Dragon is useful, because I consider this thread like a strategic discussion, about movements and issues.
Wake up of this dream and face the fact that it is a open source project that depends on developers and mainly of the amount of users, the developers won’t work so hard like they do only for 20 or 30 users. :RocknRoll: