2.8 Default Keymap

Although it does not make sense to directly use it with a click from menu; I think for discoverability it should be in Align View submenu.
Behavior could be different when called from menu. It could show a pipette to give user time to move mouse at desired location.

Yes that’s a good idea, with a pipette.
Plus, if it’s in a menu, you can right-click on it and quickly assign a shortcut. Which you can’t do as it is now.

I agree with this. Some users seem to want to keep this feature because of accidental deletions. So let me get this straight. We keep the X key as delete, but since the X key is easier to get accidentally pressed than the Delete key, we have to keep the delete confirmations even though Blender has an undo function for quite a while already? Is this really an elegant design? In Maya, almost all operations are outputted at the bottom so any accidental operations would be displayed. However, most apps seem to get by fine without any delete notifications or confirmation boxes. This would drive people nuts if there were delete confirmations in word processors, Photoshop, audio editors, etc. Why is this needed in a 3d app?

Please get rid of these delete confirmations or give an option to disable them.

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Work on a dense scene.

Then tell us the undo function is anywhere near as useful or as fast as the confirmation box.
Not to mention undo doesn’t even work if you’re working on a super dense mesh (say, in order to clean it up), so you’ve either dialled down the undo RAM max, or turned off undo, in order to save ram…

It’s also completely different from any confirmation boxes used in any other program like word processors, photoshop, audio editors etc. Because blender doesn’t use the standard delete confirmation box that pops up in the middle of the screen, instead the button appears under your mouse.

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IMO, delete prompt should be present in default keymap but it should be optional.
It is true that in complex scenes, you could delete hidden things without figure it out in time.
But it is also true that some people are never dealing with complex scenes.
The need of prompt varies according to workflow.
It is fine to have Quit prompt as a User Preference. It should be the same for delete prompts.

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That doesn’t mean it needs confirmation box. That means undo performance needs to be improved.

That’s not how any development should work. Let’s say extrude in Blender would be very slow. The right solution is to make extrude faster. The wrong solution is to introduce a new confirmation popup you need to click every time you press extrude.

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If the problem is accidental deletion, they could make it not use a top-level key. e.g. use Shift+X or something instead of just X.

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Undo is always a last resort, and should always be a last resort, because it is complex.

There is no way to improve undo performance on dense scenes. You’re just dealing with too much data. It’s going to be slow.

Why don’t we trigger a Windows UAC request while we’re at it? You know, to be extra safe. Oh, and a 10-second timer. You wouldn’t want the user to confirm without first thinking it over, now would you? :joy:

I bet you’re one of those crazy people who never turns off the exit confirmation either. :upside_down_face:

Jokes aside, that’s what undo is for. If it doesn’t work, that’s a bug and should be fixed. If it’s slow, it’s still faster than annoying users with popups all the time.

Undo is a last resort, it is never fully trustworthy, and you should never rely on it. Blender’s confirmation dialog takes 0 time to use, as it’s using a different hand to press, a button you’re finger is already poised and ready to click on, and the mouse doesn’t even have to move.

It saves people’s mistakes, and costs no time or effort to everyone else.

If it takes no time, then it takes no thought either. It will just become muscle memory and you’ll click it before catching yourself saying ‘oops’. Besides, I FUCKING HATE meaningless popups of all sorts, and I know I’m not the only one.

If you have encountered a problem, then it’s a bug and you should file it.

If you truly work directly on superdense meshes all day and feel you really need a confirmation dialog, then I suggest you write yourself a small addon that adds that popup confirmation. No, seriously, try it. I promise it’s easy. You can then share it with like-minded heavy mesh editors. :slight_smile: (Or just keep it to yourself, like I do with my small improvements, so you don’t have to maintain them for others. Whatever floats your boat.)

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“Watch out your language young man” :joy: You have the delete button for you, you can delete without any confirmations, but for us who works sometimes for long time on heavy scene and by mistake we can hit that x and regret for awhile. I believe that this is good trade off, even though i suggested, in the main discussion, to put this option in the user preferences. I believe this is good as well. https://developer.blender.org/T57880

If you’re not intending to delete something, you’re “delete” muscle memory isn’t going to trigger.

It is untrustworthy, and a last resort, at the concept level. No amount of ‘bugfixing’ can fix that. Especially given the inherent limitations via ram and step counts, and the sheer growing complexity of the number of things it needs to keep track of.

At most there should be an option to turn it off. But it needs to stay.

Ah, so it’s just ideological. Well you can still make that tiny addon and play with your toys in your own yard. But don’t come to my yard and make me play with your toys. I will not play with your toys.

Do you by any chance have any reel, portfolio, ArtStation page or anything of that sort? I haven’t found any topics you’ve created on this forum since you don’t have any. Given the nature of your opinions not only here, but in other threads as well, I am genuinely very, very curious what kind of work you do in Blender, since you always seem to defend or request quite inefficient workflows. And since I can’t imagine anyone actually preferring inefficient workflows, then the only other explanation is that for the kind of work you do, such workflows are efficient. But I find it impossible to imagine that kind of work, that’s why I am asking.

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I’m always for making the default blender experience lean towards it’s fastest workflow. I’ve had to somewhat give up that idea since LCS started showing signs of inevitably coming default.

The workflows and edits I propose area always for efficiency, and I always propose ways to keep both the way I do things fast, and the way someone else does things fast, when I can. Example, the last thing I recall us disagreeing about was orientation. It’s sad they reverted it instead of implementing a better solution useful for both work styles, which I acknowledge are useful in different circumstances. My proposals for that situation worked for both you and I.

My work is not open for discussion. I am fortunate I never even started a portfolio before I got work, perhaps I will need one and thus make one in the future.

Don’t make me play with your toys.

Yeah, I figured that’d be the case. It was worth a shot anyway :slight_smile:

Would be great if we can add the Maya & Max Keymap back as an option for many Maya & Max users that’s planning to adapt Blender 2.8.

Or existing Blender users that been using Maya & Max Keymap in the previous versions.

Thanks!
SW

They never worked well. That’s why they were removed. Their names gave you a false impression that those keymaps would actually work like Maya or Max, just to leave you disappointed moments later. But an alternative is being worked on and will be available soon: https://developer.blender.org/T54963

That’s true they didn’t work very well.

Somebody, (don’t remember who since it’s been quite a while) put together a list of changes to the Maya keymap which I did and it works extremely well for me now in 2.79.

I haven’t said much about the other keymaps since I figured whoever did it before, would probably make the changes again and key us in.

If not, that’s ok, I will just adapt to what is here, but once I had changed that keymap in 2.79 back when, I was much more comfortable in blender when switching.
Since I started with Maya in the 90’s it was too comfortable for me :slight_smile: