2.8 Default Keymap

What is this betrayal? The dinky new keymap was supposed to be non-default. :anger:

Pfft. I’m just gonna continue giving people hints for the old keymap and telling them to switch.

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The industry standard keymap isn’t the one they are talking about. There are also plans to minimize the default keymap. This isn’t a surprise. They said this would be one of the goal for 2.8 somewhere (maybe it was on the developer blog. I can’t remember).

Personally, I think they need to remove some keys from the default keymap in order to make it easier for addon developers to pick shortcuts. As has been said, changing an old hotkey is the same as adding a hotkey for something that doesn’t have one. This isn’t a usability issue, it’s about making things easier for addon developers.

As for which keys need to be in the default keymap, I’d personally rather see X stay as the delete key. I didn’t know about this shortcut early on, and I can safely say using it sped up my modeling. It fits well with the rhythmic nature of blenders shortcuts. GG for edge slide, RZ to rotate around the Z axis, XV to delete verts, XS to dissolve faces; this is a rhythm that is hard to capture if you have to move your left hand off home row.

I’m in favor of getting rid of the shortcuts for showing the layers (collections now). I’ve said this before, but that old system doesn’t work well with the new collection system. Presumably, you’d use them when you can’t see the outliner, but there are now more than 20 collections and it’s easy to forget the numbers associated with each one. We’ll need an onscreen widget for managing collection visability when we can’t see the outliner (maybe it can be summoned with a hotkey).

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You’ll be interested to hear that this was once the plan:
https://developer.blender.org/T37422
But due to vague reasons it was reverted, and I can’t for the life of my get a response as to why…

Personally, I have always set X (or another left-hand key) to delete in software that allowed for hotkey remapping, even before I used Blender. Delete is far away, and in 3d modeling you end up using it a lot. In image editing software I use ‘Ctrl-X’ instead of delete, just to be able to stay on the left side of the keyboard.

Campbell added X key for delete back.

blender2.8: Keymap: add back X-Key for delete

Also, PGUP/PGDN switch workspaces.

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Say, how would you guys feel if they changed the shortcut for loopcut? I always felt it should have been a single key shortcut like extrude since we use it so much. I think C would be a good shortcut for it. To remember it you think “cut” and you can easily press this from with your left hand on the keyboard.

I don’t know where we’d put the circle select tool. Maybe we could double tap B to activate it, or we could hold down the select button to activate it.

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Back in 2.4x we had to double tap B to get it. I don’t know if that’s any better, however we do now have selecting tools on the side panel where beginners can find them without having to know the hotkeys.

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Thank goodness. Reading that change actually caused me some anxiety.

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Time for addon creators to start adding shortcut config in their settings.

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As someone mentioned, issue will be that for basic tutorials, all will have to state at the beginning, i’m using 2.8 profile, or 2.7 profile, or some custom configuration…

This will cause a bit of confusion for new users… almost a deterrent?

I understand that the goal is to provide default keys’ matching thouse of the bigger tools (with MAYA being the default one if there are too many options).

I’m not saying this is bad or good, just trying to understand it better.

Right nwo i’m usign 2.8 for smaller project (cosplay armour) to get a handle of some of the changes… and will admit… confusing as heck :frowning: at times.

But i do liek the favourites bar “Q”, very nice addition.

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All of the tutorials now are going to be busted anyway because of the fundamental design changes in 2.8. It’s much like how they were busted previously when Blender switched to the current UI in 2.5x.

People might complain, but keeping all of the old cruft around for the sake of avoiding the obsolescence of learning material leads to bloatware, a trashy codebase, and an app. hard to develop for. I would also not forget that the BF is actually more generous in preserving old knowledge and compatibility than many companies (most of what you learned in 2.59 remains relevant in 2.79).

It’s not really about old tutorials. Even brand new ones will need to go through the step of getting some basic keys set back up so the author can actually demonstrate modeling/sculpting instead of demonstrating mouse movement to far off menus. Many may just default to the 2.7 keymap so they can get to real content sooner, others will ship their own keymap and establish their own ‘brand’, and others will suffer with the mouse :). Nothing drastically different than what’s possible today but the current situation will probably force different keymaps to proliferate more than in the past. Good luck everybody!

Generally, like we saw for the ‘x’ key coming back today, things will re-improve. Right now it’s still way too early to judge the impact of 2.8 to the new user. Today it’s very bad as not all the features necessary are there. Hopefully by Beta the features that new (and old) users need will be available – a better shortcut key editor, a useful default keymap for real modeling, a local view, and the ability to align image-empties to individual ortho views. Without those, most new tutorials will struggle to teach their content to new users/modelers/sculptors etc.

I fully agree that old tutorials are not so valid anymore when 2.8 comes out. The thing is that for each tutorial now the presenter has to be transparent which keymap they used. and even if they do, it will be difficult for some to follow that have other keymaps.

And as stated I agree that there is a lot of old crud. I’ve watched more then I’d like to admit. :slight_smile:

First, lets get this out of the way. The changes are happening, whether you like it or not. So even if one types up a storm, yells from the tallest roof, it is simply not going to stop the changes.

egg

Well, that’s some serious egg on your face. So much, in fact, that I’m thinking of making an omelette. I’m not saying I had any influence over this decision, but someone did. Possibly Campbell himself.

Changing that particular shortcut was a bad choice. I’m glad it was changed back.

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what tutorials are people talking about?

Tutorials have different target audiences. Any tutorial that focuses on keyboard shortcuts is 99% of the time focused on absolute basics like view navigation or selection and basic modelling commands… ie for those just starting out. there are the odd exceptions where someone talks specifically about their workflow and speed or some of the more hidden shortcuts but most people surely move on quickly from this stage: the bulk of tutorials are more about techniques and approaches and aimed at someone who at least knows the basics.

2.8 at least has the new modal tools paradigm and has re-organised a lot of menus and panels to be much more discoverable… there is also the search bar. A good tutorial will mention the command not the key shortcut… and as long as creating your own hotkeys/keymaps is easy the technique will be the focus not the key combo!

Maybe even the industry standard map, left click select and right mouse contexts menus will help make everything more discoverable so tutorials never need mention the keymap!

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A few new keybindings

https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-July/111506.html

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https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-July/111508.html

I prefer using A as a toggle. Select and deselect were fast using that. I told myself i’d use the new default keymap no matter what, but this change makes me want to immediately reconfigure that option.

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I think they’re just experimenting with stuff based off the Spring Teams feedback. I suspect it’ll go through a few more iterations before all is said and done.

https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-July/111514.html

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Look elsewhere if you are interested in making imaginary “omelettes”. Context matters bud, I was clearly referring to the larger changes happening with 2.8 (plural, not singular), with a specific reference to the same cause and effect we saw with 2.5.

Quote: “Changes are happening regardless of the moaning and groaning. There will be options to keep what you like, or people will create the “old” stuff you demand so dearly. This is same old hyperbolic reactions we saw with 4.5.”

It was a direct followup to what Ace just posted two posts prior…Quote:
“It seems like the keymap changes will go through the same process as we’ve seen many times over the years.
Changes to core Blender functionality is proposed
The old guard grandstands against said changes and argues why they shouldn’t happen
The changes go through, people enjoy it, no more arguments against it.”

But hey, whatever floats your boat. =)

As for x being delete, honestly I don’t care about that one key either way, but rather the purpose for freeing up the keyboard… which is to let you, the users, pick your preferential keys. Some people were acting like it was the end of the world that they would have to add one keyboard shortcut in Blender, there are more gains to be had by keeping it free but either way it will be removed by a user or kept by them. The larger contention is how some of you perceived it to be a “dumb design choice”, which really meant “I liked the way it was before”.

Good grief.