It all depends on the personal situation, I like to slightly customize Blender to focus on the only task I use it for, so minimal (not new user) keymap is a great idea for starter and LM Select a must so I don’t go nuts when changing between programs.
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You’d hope that universities would set whichever interaction preset they intend on teaching. On the other hand, new users is what that preset would be for, more or less, which sounds like it would fit university students perfectly. I also doubt the minimal preset would be missing so many keybinds that it’s basically useless. A “basic set of keybinds” is still quite likely a large portion of functionality. The other presets are specifically for users that want a more complete set of keybinds, want a more industry standard key layout, or are looking to get that extra bit of speed in their workflow.
I can’t say that I’ve tested whether the interaction presets can’t be changed on certain university computers, but it would come as a surprise if that were the case, since Blender can be run entirely from something like a usb drive. I believe it saves its user preferences in the users appdata folders, I’d be surprised if write access by programs to that folder is limited, it feels like it would break a whole ton of other programs. Then again, I can hardly check every university’s computer system.
I actually wrote up a proposal about enabling this type of interaction preset setup: RCS Proposal
Pie menu is back out again—or at least not on tab. Tab goes into edit mode. Ctrl+Tab brings up the pie menu.
https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-July/111562.html
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Yes you are right. I was just refering to your “truly minimal” statement. I like the direction they are taking currently with the 2.8 Default Keymap - I just wouldn’t like if they removed keys like E for Extruding or strg+r for Loop Cuts.
Of course you can always bring your own Blender installation to every PC - thats the great thing with Blender, but noone of the casual student users would ever do it 
not sure what to think about this…
Huh, not sure I understand the reasoning here.
Tab is no more or less easy to accidentally press than any other key. I don’t see how it was easy to accidentally switch modes when moving the cursor?
Release of Tab being the operator feels semantic-y. It’d be ‘typical’ for any pie menu operator if more pie menu operators get introduced. You’re also not typically going to be doing anything before you’ve released the previous key, especially if that key switches modes - which in of itself usually hiccups anyway.
It feels a little less snappy when just switching between object & edit mode, but I think it’s ultimately no different speed-wise.
Unpredictable?
Ctrl+Tab feels to me like one of those instances where the modifier + key combos is uncomfortable aswell, since they’re right above one another.
Maybe it’s just me since I always used the pie menu which just turned Tab into a pie menu for every press.
Someone help me understand the reasoning here.
Tab toggled edit/object mode. Tab+mouse move brought up the pie menu. So the problem was: when modeling, it was easy to try to toggle object/edit mode, but still be moving the mouse and bring up the pie menu by accident.
I personally would be fine with just a pie menu, but I guess a lot of people like the object/edit toggle.
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They need to add f hotkey to scale circle select and proportional editing radius. Annoying with tablet to gave to press key across the board to fine tune that + in line with painting|sculpting
https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-July/111563.html
https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-July/111565.html
I don’t get it. Why don’t they just make the pie menu show up when you hold the tab key down longer? Does the current system not allow this? It doesn’t need to be held for a long time in order to be effective.
I remember reading an old proposal on the old wiki that suggested this be the method we use to summon all optional pie menus. I think this method is easy to remember and shouldn’t cause any issues.
Technically they are not always double. It’s effectively a merge, bad naming.
Left click select is an absolute standard and it does not make sense to keep right click as the default.
For people arguing, how many time do you select something per day and which mouse button is the most natural? Do you really think that the current default configuration is the most elegant and practical solution, and if so, why so many people don’t even last 5 minutes when they try blender for the first time?
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“It’s industry standard” is, again, an empty argument.
Most people being frustrated, unwilling or unable to learn a new method of doing something is no reflection on the validity and efficacy of said method. It is not an objective measure.
Refer to my previous posts in this topic.
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LMB-Select isn’t necessarily an “industry standard” so much as the way the mouse itself is designed to be used. Blender makes selection so convoluted that it’s like trying to use a Dvorak keyboard when you’re a Qwerty typer. It can be learned, but only by people with a great deal of patience. Even a significant number of people on this board quit Blender in frustration the first time or two. I think we could design it better.
Anyway, Campbell fixed a bunch of inconsistencies. I can’t get the list to format well here, but it’s available on this task.
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If so, maybe when proportional editing f can make the selection small enough to fit on the screen. This happens to me a lot :X
I’d say “frustrating users” is a valid measure of a user interface. Or any product in general.
Left-click select is already found in a number of Blender’s window types, it’s mainly the 3D view and the UV editor where it isn’t.
2.8 is getting a number of keymap changes anyway (to the point where a 2.7x keymap as an option will be present), so why not take the leap as long as a little bit of re-orienting is needed?
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I reiterate
I personally, will not be ‘taking a leap’ Because from a workflow perspective, separating action and selection, which necessitates moving either selection or action to the right mouse button, leads to a better workflow. I don’t want to un-learn something that has objective benefits over the industry standard.
I acknowledge that having the default difficult to learn is an issue. But keeping in mind both sides of the issue, and the objective benefits to Blender’s current workflow, I proposed a possible solution. Alongside with making the interaction presets more obvious to users, I proposed:
This gives the experienced users a place to be, the industry standard users a place to be, and new users a familiar ground to get to grips with Blender, before deciding on a final workflow.
I never said it’s an industry standard, I said it’s a standard, like in ABSOLUTE standard: 99.9% of softwares and computer interactions work on that standardized model . Not conforming to it if it doesn’t bring something useful and practical is unproductive.
It is not because you are used to it that it’s the better choice. I would suggest you to study a lot of Google and Apple user interaction and interfacing (and let’s not bring into the pot INDUSTRY STANDARD)
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It does.
Never claimed.
Again, a certain amount of reorientation and relearning will be expected during the 2.8x series.
- BI is out, its replacement (Eevee) will have to be learned
- A new hair system is coming (separate from particles), there will be workflow changes
- Active tools are a new concept that will require a little bit of learning
- Many other workflow changes will mean old knowledge will break
The same is already going to apply for the keymap.
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New hair?
As for active tools, I think a good portion of users will like myself just have the cursor active and leave it at that - since we work by the immediacy of hotkeys. As a result, I don’t think it’s going to require any relearning so-to-speak.
Having tools like that which work similar to other software though is a good thing I think - aslong as it doesn’t harm other workflows, which I don’t think it has thus far.
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