3D Cursor an old concept that need to go?

General Forums Blender Development Discussion
#159

Why? You mean keep your feedback to yourself? There’s usually reason for negative feedback. You can either paint it as something unreasonable, offensive or toxic (seems to be trendy these days) or you could listen and learn what are its sources.

I think this is a misunderstanding. We hate the 3d cursor because we are forced to use it in situations where other applications provide way more effective AND MORE NATURAL solutions. Of course we don’t want it gone for people who might actually find it useful. It just seems that it is used as an excuse not to deliver the proper solution where one is badly needed.

If I want to place an object at a certain coord in my fav. 3d app I don’t have to first place some widget there, instead I just point and click.
If I want to rotate an object around a vertex I don’t need to 1) place that cursed widget there and then 2) tell the app I want to switch to rotating around that widget, instead the app asks for a rotation axis. So Much Faster. So Much More Natural. Also So Much More Versatile.
When I want to move object precisely in my fav. 3d app I get to decide what is the reference point.
And in Blender all this is even worse in the UV Editor.

#160

…Maybe is my Engrish bad… and this are just misunderstanding.
So You HATE… one feature and want to axe it. I ( and many other ), use it ( it’s stupid to say love, at least I avoid to use such term for … software function ), so what is wrong with my post? You literally repeat my words.
I don’t know about other applications except C4D, my experience with 3DMax and Modo is very superficially and I use it very briefly many years ago. Like I say, in C4D I emulate 3D cursor, but this is very UN-natural and UN-effective. btw. comparing software is more tricky than you think. During years I help many ( mostly Max users ) guys to start using C4D. Well we chit chat about advantages and fails. And there is no clear winner. In modelling you use just few tools non stop, and there is field where C4D shine. Max have enormous modelling toolset, but just like Blender are… little clumsy, at least for me.
So if you ( and others ) really want to improve Blender, you miss the target. There are many other things which can be improved or in most cases introduced. Such things are on surface simple, but I guess that they demand serious work under hub. In current situation when developers are preoccupated with shinny new toys like geometry nodes, I think that they don’t have time for basic.
Also I lost every hope… one dude propose new render window… but many people say that they don’t need this. For sure, all major software / renders have normal render window, but Blenders users know better. Oh, wait… they “improve” it… they reverse render slot order… really, now I’m happy… fact that I can’t see zoom level or can’t compare two renders are irrelevant.
This is already long writing, so I will stop here.

#161

Yes. That is a kind of first iteration of tool that is far to be solid.
Settings that are displayed in last operator panel are the ones exposed when adding primitives using Add menu (shift A).
So, yes. Adding a cube or a sphere just displays a unique radius setting.
Adding a Cylinder displays a radius and a depth setting.
Adding a Cone displays 2 radius and a depth setting.

So, we are limited to those primitives.
And when you try to snap a primitive on a rotated object, you will encounter issues.

Frankly, that tool need work to be a real equivalent to what exists in other software.
People are thinking that ease of use is as easy to create. But that is the opposite and that takes time.
With 2.8 design, Blender is trying to assimilate ease of use of tools well-known in other software.
But this is a target for a frightening amount of tasks.
So, developers choose to attack the mountain by completing a first milestone for each task instead of letting people think that they will not intervene.

They are currently developing Geometry Nodes. We should end up with some kind of parametric primitives using those nodes. In few years, we should end-up with a smooth workflow when using Add Object tool could create a parametric primitive.
But that will take years because a lot aspects of Blender are in the same status of half achieved feature, first milestone.

Campbell literally spend months working on current Add Object tool. Before that, he spend month solving problems with the Scale Cage active tool that did not exist before 2.80.
You can use this tool and keep an eye on dimensions in Transform panel to modify individual dimensions of object.

You have to precise that such vertex is the point of reference for rotation.
Whatever software you are using, you are doing something similar.
You can be in a default mode that automatically choose pertinent vertex close to mouse pointer.
But in that case, if you want to rotate around an object origin instead of a vertex, you have to quit that mode and do operations to change pivot point.

That was worst in old Blender. You had to go into edit mode, to change select mode to select vertex, to select vertex, to use Shift S menu to snap 3d Cursor to vertex, to quit edit mode.

Now, using 3D Cursor active tool, that is quicker to snap 3D Cursor on a vertex, without quitting Object mode.
What you are used to is not very much faster. I concede that can be faster but not very much faster.
You probably have 2/3 operation to do, anyways.
I think that nothing can be qualified as natural. You are just used to that way.
People using another software could be annoyed trying the one you are used to.

And about versatility, you would have to be more explicit.
In Blender, you have several choices.
You can use center of bounding box of selection, origin of object, individual origins of all objects of selection, median point from location of origins of objects of selection, active element as a pivot point.
Or you can use any location as a pivot point using 3D Cursor.

You can be annoyed about slow way to place 3D Cursor.
But that is simply impossible to be more versatile about placement of pivot point than being able to place it, anywhere.

#162

tbh seems so

#163

The actual excuse is the Blender Foundation has a fraction of the workforce of other apps, a fraction of the funding of other apps (a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the funding prior to 2.8), and dedicate a large portion of their effort to fixing bugs (something that most users of other software wish would happen for them).

You can help elimate this piss poor excuse by giving the Blender Foundation some money, at least as much as what you spent over the years on whatever programs you prefer over Blender.

#164

I think the 3D cursor remains brilliant, but it doesn’t have to be part of your world. You can hide it, save your settings, and never think about it again, as far as I can tell. But one-handed users, among many others, can make good use of it. I use it for lots of stuff.

The only thing I’d change about it is that I’d like to able to undo placing the cursor.

2 Likes
#165

TBH, the 3D cursor to me feels like a relic of Blender’s past. The way it just hangs around in the Viewport, looking like some sort of cross hair for a NES game. The way you have to awkwardly position it and use the N-panel to slide it around. The way the SNAP menu is overloaded. It does some very useful stuff, but hopefully some smart people can get around to updating it, maybe increasing its function in some areas but decreasing its use in other areas.

#166

Wow, I had no idea people didn’t like the 3D cursor. I can’t imagine using Blender without it, I use it a lot, like really a lot, in my blends and find it invaluable.

1 Like
#167

Well, there’s also the option to use the active element, of course. No need for the 3d cursor then.

#168

3D Cursor is useful. But I hate it not having an undo stack (I sometimes literally reopen a file just because I accidentally moved the 3D Cursor) and I hate it not having a transformation widget in the viewport. So, for me, these are no-brainer needs that should be remedied.

It can be made further useful by allowing creating multiple 3D Cursors (with one “active”), or a way to store different positions/rotations. But multiple will be more user friendly.

Also, being able to “localize” 3D Cursors could be super useful. Maybe to different scenes/collections/objects.

4 Likes
#169

This need was covered by addons in 2.79.
https://archive.blender.org/wiki/index.php/Extensions:2.5/Py/Scripts/3D_interaction/Enhanced_3D_Cursor/
https://archive.blender.org/wiki/index.php/Extensions:2.5/Py/Scripts/3D_interaction/Cursor_Control/
But they were not continued after 2.80.

Their main goal was to provide ability to intuitively move 3D Cursor.
That goal was half reached with active tool.
Todo task about 3D Cursor active tool has not been closed.
https://developer.blender.org/T69550

In theory, you can add a vertex or an empty, each time ; you are afraid to loose 3D Cursor location.
In practice, that is forcing user to create macros, addons to remove isolated vertices or empties, to set a small display size for empties and to re-snap 3D Cursor to those empties.

An history or at least a shortcut to create empties should be added to 3D Cursor active tool todo list.

#170

Yeah, that is annoying. I would need a separate undo stack, though. Being part of the regular undo stack would be similarily annoying as having the viewport in the regular undo stack.

#171

Yes the addon/script I found by 1_conscience_0_dimen (earlier post) does that but only partially and does not seem very practical (maybe I was using it wrong). It would be great if the 3d cursor had its very own optional gizmo that you could turn on and off.
Yes undo stack!, and option to save positions.
I am all for improvements for the beloved cursor!

#172
2 Likes
#173

Yeh, there is need, because often there’s no active element that sits at the point I want to use now as center for rotating/scaling.

It would probably be more useful if the 3D Cursor was a special type of Empty – you can only have one, and you can’t delete it, but you can keep it hidden forever with a checkbox option somewhere.

If it’s an object, it can be snapped like other objects. And it’ll be a 3D object. The only weird thing to me about the 3D cursor is that it’s represented by a 2D symbol.

I’d use it more, not less. My ideal cursor/empty works with the move/rotate/scale tools, or at least with the Move tool. Viz options are same as an empty when it makes sense. And when you Undo, that can include the cursor, but it needs 2 visible states: locked or unlocked. A locked cursor doesn’t move till you unlock it, even if Undo tries to move it.

That would be my ideal. Treat it like an object, except that it’s built-in to every scene. I guess I don’t care if it has no scale properties, but having a rotation property seems useful to me.

#174

It already responds to snapping when you click and drag.

Personally, I think an undo stack and optional widgets to move and rotate it would be enough. I mean, if you accidentally place it somewhere, you can just undo that to move it back. We don’t really need to lock it if we can just undo misclicks.

2 Likes
#175

I agree. Good points.

#176

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in the pot.

I hated the 3D cursor at first…and now, I absolutely love it. I use it ALL the time, and it’s a huge time saver. Once you get used to it. Take it out on a few dates. Keep an open mind. Go for dessert…it’s a great companion!

:wink:

1 Like
#177

What exactly are you doing with our 3D cursor behind closed doors ? that winky face worries me

#178

The 3D cursor is needed but should be improved. I’m new to Blender but have background with Softimage XSI. The 3D Cursor equivalent there was much much more intuitive.

1 Like