A good curvature node?

(Fatesailor) #1

Now, in 2.8, we do have a highly effective ao node. Any idea about implementing a similarly effective curvature node too? Such a node is essential for giving to the users the means to produce the so needed, for conveying realism, wear effects on the convex edges of many kinds of objects.

I know, there are some good tries to make some edge mask node groups by some skilled users but they are usable only on very sharp edges. It is something that does not work when you have a bevelled edge. And as is well known the pointiness too does not achieve efficent results in such cases (apart from the fact that it needs very dense meshed objects for working too).

Any thoughts? Any developers to give attention to a so needed feature? :smiley:

(Ace Dragon) #2

The AO node has a checkbox which changes the result to something very similar to curvature.

Is there something missing when you do that?

(Fatesailor) #3

You may try for yourself Ace_Dragon: upload a simple cube primitive, bevel all its edges and try to achieve a cuvrvature masking on it. You will not be able to do it.

The new ao does not give satisfactory results even in the cavities (the innerward oriented bevelled edges) of such an object. The ao effect spreads around and the bevelled edges remain unaffected.

(Indy_logic) #4

What about the bevel edge shader?


Oh wait, I just saw this the other day. I don’t know for sure what the end result is that you’re needing but I know there is curvature in this one:

(Fatesailor) #5

I know Wayward’s mask node. I have already experimented with it a lot. It is a good effort to produce such a node. It does not, however, give the needed result. The wear effect it produces can be applied only to single-sharp edges, something that constitutes a serious limitation and makes objects look artificial (given that edges looking absolutely sharp are very rare in real life). I am putting below an image illustrating the problem. Look at the edges of the object: you will see their unnatural sharpness ‘smiling’ at you in the midst of the wear effect. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

(Fatesailor) #6

Did find the solution: you apply another material with the same color of the wear area to bevels’ faces!

The idea came as a revelation! I immediately went to test it and… it works! :smiley:

Now we can do things similar to those that Substance Painter does in Blender too! :smiley:

(Indy_logic) #7

I don’t understand what you mean but I’m glad you figured it out. :wink:

With the earlier issue, I was assuming there was an angle tolerance for the curveture. That would have solved the issue you’re talking about. You were saying that it only works on single hard edges and not across bevels, but the actual issue is that the angle tolareance if set too high. I’m sure this is something the developer might be able to fix.

(Fatesailor) #8

There is no angle tolerance choice in the mentioned node. If such a thing existed would be great, no need to say… in such a case someone could have much more options in his disposition. But, anyway, this idea of putting another shader on the bevel faces solves, somehow, a big part of the problem. Maybe I will do some small explanatory video about the whole issue and its solution. Because I do see that it is a little bit difficult to convey what exactly I do mean by mere words only. Will see. Thanks, however, for trying to help. :slightly_smiling_face:

(cgCody) #9

I know the issues you’re talking about.

Hard edges work well:

Beveled edges, not so much:

I’ve looked into creating procedural curvature maps as well, and I just couldn’t find a solution that matches the quality of Substance baked curvature maps. Both aforementioned techniques seem to favor the outer portion of the bevels, leaving the middle unmasked. You can improve it to some extent with increased samples, but complex models with a wide variety of curvature will still suffer somewhere.

(Fatesailor) #10

CgCody are you the author of the Wayward mask node?

(cgCody) #11

No, but I’m a fan of Kansas’ Wayward son. That’s about the only wayward I know about. :grinning:

(Fatesailor) #12

I asked because if you were its author I would make a request for a separate ‘concave’ edges option too on it. :smiley:

(Fatesailor) #13

Btw, let say that the fact that there can be found some solutions -through some masking nodes as the one mentioned above and various workarounds- does not mean that the need of such a node stops being existent. A good curvature node is something highly needed in Blender. A node with which someone could produce successfully wear and dirt effects of high quality on every kind of objects (independently of their mesh density). A node that would produce masks separately for concave and convex edgy areas of the objects with a sufficient range of parametrization choices, as are those having to do with the thickness of the curvature, the feathering of its edges etc.