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I guess asking for more than 2 bucks per hour for expert level software development work is too much?
Never mind that it’s all open source GPL.
Money is a great motivator and GPL code, unlike other commercial projects can not be hold as hostage, nor will it die if the original developer abandons it yet there’s community demand for it.
Man… get some perspective here.
i can just my perspective is very simple… as i explain earlier.
No need to continue
This talk reminds me of those environmentalists who complain about carbon levels, but never plant a tree which could take out 30-40 points of carbon out of the atmosphere every year.
Yes, some people are going to want some money for their time and stress, but who cares? The vast Majority of people reading this right now could in a years time learn enough python to be able to cobble together some useful addons, so when people imply that the skill needed to do that is some sort of rare and sacred thing it…makes me wonder how many proverbial trees have they wasted the chance to plant.
And on the topic of trees, I’ve got 42 apple tree saplings that have sprouted right now, and I’ve learned enough python to cobble together some scripts to speed up my workflow.
Yes, good idea, Uriel, make free tutorials for beginners to help them to learn coding.
I made some free tutorials about coding on blender, but it’s in french, old and I’m not as good as you, so, help the community to make free addons for the community
you know i am french too right ?
i tried to get contact with you , because i was sure we can do some good experiments in coding.
we may have different goals, but we have the same love for Blender (as i read all your posts and i look all your videos)
we have no reason to argument, we want all Blender the best software as possible
maybe my joke was too much, but still, nothing bad as you may interpretate. it is ok
for me, over the years, i saw more people using blender in office, in school,etc… and i am happy to participate to this challenge. as you may see in internet, i was into 3dmax and maya before blender, and i left it for the same reason that i promote open source in FOSS conferences around the world.
well, “sans rancune, retournons faire ce que nous aimont, c.a.d blender, coder et produire de nouvelles idees pour les autres, excellente journee a toi et a tes collaborateurs”
Stop acting like people are getting rich making addons with Blender. People are paying rent. Feeding themselves. This is not a cheap money grab it is people surviving in the capitalistic societies they live in. Are you in a socialist country where your housing and food is given to you?
It’s pretty ridiculous to expect “full-blown-workflow-enhancing-time-saving-joy-to-work-with-add-ons” to be developed for free. Considering the possibilities they give you, they’re a steal in almost every case, compared to add-ons for commercial 3d suites.
Following that logic the dev fund shouldn’t exist in the first place and the core devs should definitely work for free. I am a little allergic to people wanting everything for free and even making more demands when they’re not being charged with anything. Guess that’s just working in advertisement…
I for one am happy that people like @MACHIN3
or @masterxeon1001 are concentrating on Blender as a tool to start with.
I think it’s common decency to show some respect and understanding that work of this scale should be rewarded, for them being able to develop those add-ons in the first place.
To sum it up, i think neither the joke nor giving paid addons away for free is very funny.
It depends on whether you expect to end up with a script or add-on that just about works in a small subset of situations (or does something trivial) or a more pollished product that actually does the job, does it well, works on various versions of Blender (or whatever - this isn’t just restricted to Blender), is actively brought up to date with newly released versions of Blender, is documented (and the documentation is up to date), is supported (with a quick turnaround and helpful response), is well designed and easy to use. Essentially, you get what you pay for to some degree.
It can take a lot of effort to track down bugs, test various “edge case” scenarios, etc., keep things up to date when the API changes, produce documentation, develop new features - and produce something that is much more accessible and easy to use for all users (not just those with the technical knowledge to be able to setup and run a complicated stand-alone script, for example). For most ‘good’ add-ons, the payment is trivial compared to the effort involved and often amounts to little more than ‘beer money’ - certainly not proportional to the time involved.
I agree that it is wrong to charge for an add-on that was effectively just ‘generated’ and encapsulates a standard operator as effectively a ‘shortcut’ - or an add-on which really doesn’t do what is expected. There’s not much ‘value added’ in that. But to produce a high quality add-on takes a lot of time and effort and it’s reasonable to expect a contribution for that.
When you purchase through Blender Market (for example), if the product does not do what is promised then you can demand a refund (and you should demand one if you are dissatisfied with what you’ve received) - also, write a review to warn other users. Also, as well as a contribution to Blender Market itself, there is the option for the developer to hand a cut of the proceeds to Blender devloper fund.
In my experience, voluntary donations occur very rarely - and certainly cannot be relied on. It’s relatively rare to even receive feedback or thanks or acknowledgement. The payment of a couple of beers or the price of a cup of coffee is a very small price to pay for good quality workmanship, support and ongoing development - and it makes the developer feel valued and gives incentive to continue the good work rather than move on to some other project. Rather than ruining the Blender community, payment actually encourages further developments and contribution by making the developer feel appreciated rather than ignored.
So in micro as in the macro.
“public communists against private capitalists.”
The eternal wheel that turns.
Sooner or later you will succeed in destroying this thriving environment, I know it.
I want to see as long as everyone can keep their lucidity and their hunger for greed at bay, so that the machine can turn well oiled without the ticks they will grow too much to drain blood from the central heart.
“if too much blood goes to the cock, the brain does not think properly” it is a metaphor, if someone does not understand it.
These are my personal biased opinions.
I see the systems in their global functioning.
And this only interests me.
We are working, for many of us in the field of 3d media production, we earning money with our art, and that is genial ! we love our job and we love Blender.
What i am not agree with, is that helping each other and script coding is becoming hard to find on a free exchange those days ! and i am worry because i can see, that the level of support between users are decreasing fast from the announce of Blender 2.8.
i wanted to get attention about the danger of such path.
my logic, what ever you like it or not is simple:
less help between us = less progress = low level quality work for the beginners
i saw many users receiving help in the past that not tramitting the knowledge !
less free script and free updates = less progress for the entire community
i saw 2.8 port and updates and simple scripts, sold , many people will never access it !
and finally my conclusion is: less progress = low quality
we will see… i am not predicting the future, but the community model we have been for in the past is disappearing at the speed of light.
i never said that "big Addons cannot be sold and dvd turorials cannot be sold ! am i clear ?
if you work for a year on a project like that, of course, you expect to be paid and that is fair enough.
check on various help dev forums for exemple… it is going down, questions are never answered !
i would understand that on proprietary’s software forums, everything is based on paid subscription but for FOSS Blender, come on the success have been made from a different feeling, and that why we are here, no ? seriously.
well, i am not communist, for people who asked
i promote community support for users progress and a better professional inputs.
i promote sharing knowledge for a better education model…
thx, have an excellent day.
Blender lover from 2002
Blender pro user (freelance and employed) from 2004
Blender Python coder from 2005
Blender user group coordinator in Lyon (FR) 2006
Blender-pro_dot_com admin between 2005 and 2008
Blender trainer from 2008 (UK, FR, US, IN, MX)
i believe that if i had the chance and oportunity to get always a good job, it is because of the good community and members. that is just what i try to say. all the best.
We are working, for many of us in the field of 3d media production, we earning money with our art
What if my art is coding ?
So there are greedy coders and good artists using our work to make a lliving by selling assets ?
Please, read the entire post
I would agree that spending time over a thousand of line of code is fair enough, but selling is against the concept of open source and community progress.
Maybe i’m wrong but this sentence simply hurts and doesn’t looks like a joke to me.
So what’s your solution to reward coders ?
Sadly the less worst one we found is commerce, a universal way of exchanging service working since last 4000 years.
I mostly agree with you,
my joke refers to those who most generically tend to create these factions (consciously or unconsciously)
Wow…just wow…The misunderstanding, and misrepresentation, is amazing.
Guys this is not face f*ck, nor is it twatter. as the title says it’s Blender Artists.
it is a place for blender artists to gather and share there art. now i have been on forums,
for quite some time.and this kind of divisive and to some confusing discussion, is completely
counterproductive.devs attacking users for their views,etc.is just plain one way.
the issue at hand here is not devs are evil for selling content,nor is it about users not wanting to pay for anything.add-ons are fine if reasonable.but i don’t think the current trend of in your face buy my add on
bs is good for anything.i also think AGAIN that the op is completely justified in his concerns.
some of you just don’t want to get it,no one is arguing if a dev should get paid for hard work here.
THE CONCERN is this forum of artists sharing knowledge with other like minded artists.
IS getting overblown with $$$ addon ,tutorials,etc.blender forums have NEVER been like this.
This kind of behavior will only scare off new users.it is my belief that if you want to buy stuff go to the buy stuff place.there is a place for every one.the helpful, friendly,forum of old is clearly gone.
Devs SOME dev’s need to stop being willfully discourteous.same for users.
The subject of addons and pricing are clearly a sore spot for some.so what.
do what i do if it works as i need it to and it is reasonable.(not the ridiculous 2$ figure that is overused)
i will buy it.if it is a clone of another i dont buy it.if it is something i can already do i dont need it.
if it is overpriced (over $75.00 add-ons only not assets)i dont bother.i mean why should i pay a couple hundred for something i can easily do.SO community! try it.
@Rixtr the words being used are in response to the original, unedited version of the post. You missed the first strike.