American poor people pay over 75% tax, while the rich pay nothing


#21

Yeah we get it, no order = bad

but government isn’t the only organization that can enforce order


(Ace Dragon) #22

Granted, you might have the formation of tribes or groups, but that means you have the reforming of a ordered society, which according to the anarchist must not be allowed to happen.

That is if the tribe can survive the inevitable onslaught of other groups that get consumed with envy and try to tear them down to take their possessions or even just kill a bunch of them for “funsies”.


(burnin) #23

I’ts much more complex, but really also simpler.

@Ace_Dragon
Time and time again i witnessed Dunning-Kruger Effect

& That’s why living life with freedom of choice & accepting responsibility while not simply satisfying the urge is so challenging.

I know of cultures still practicing the old blood law & they are more at peace with others, visitors & neighbors than any modern city.


#24

Anarchists aren’t against society, they’re against government.

That is if the tribe can survive the inevitable onslaught of other groups that get consumed with envy and try to tear them down to take their possessions or even just kill a bunch of them for “funsies”.

While somallia isn’t the ideal, it’s an example of stateless society. So it shows that yes, people can defend themselves without government

Again, I’d like to stress, somalia was an example of a stateless society, not an example of an anarcho capitalist society,which would mandate that people follow the non-aggression principle, or an Anarcho communist society which would have a workers council. But yet it’s proof that this can work


(MusicAmg) #25

If you want a history lesson, I can provide several links were it is proved that communism and socialism failed. Obviously you were not taught that in schools. Trust me, you don’t want this… you want to to be free…


(burnin) #26

Read again your words… Trust you?!? Believe?
You too were indoctrinated. Where 's your skepticism?
Those were not the real deals, but sort of experiments overgrown into egoistic cult tyrannies. The real deal is yet to happen on the remnants of what we’re having now…


(cadaei) #27

Seems this thread was started because someone had the realization that all the costs of creating a product or service are passed down to the consumer.

:joy:


(MusicAmg) #28

please show me examples were it worked. And you can’t … yet to happen… hasn’t happened and never will… keep dreaming…


#29

“And now the groceries. It’s unmoral in the United States to charge a tax for groceries. But now that they charge income tax and use an unfair tax bracket. The groceries are taxed because the cost of the tax bracket is carried down into the price of the food.
America has been charging 75% tax on food.”

They are able to get away with it, because the tax is invisible to the people. They think they are taking advantage of the rich, when in fact they are the only people in the country who owe tax.

If they would practice fair tax rate, they might have more than what they get now.


(Dorro) #30

I’ll bite. My personal favourites I have personally visited are Freetown Christiania and Exarchia. As a teenager Iiving in Namibia I had the pleasure of staying with the Himba on the banks of the Kunene and with several different groups of Khoi speaking families subsisting in the Kalahari. The evolution of Linux and Blender and the concept of the Creative Commons are only possible because of the anarchist tenets of self governance and self regulation. If you would like a comprehensive list of current anarchistic societies, I can provide you with one, but where’s the fun in that.


(Ace Dragon) #31

It doesn’t mean such a concept can be scaled up to something as varied and diverse as a nation state without creating a chaotic system. We also need to note that the more successful FOSS projects get there by way of having clear leadership and roadmaps, an anarchic system would be a totally organic development cycle that allows users to throw whatever they want into the source code and hope that it remains something that resembles the initial vision.

Even then, FOSS has often seen failures in the ability of the dev. scene to police and regulate itself with many apps. having made highly controversial decisions that drove away users (which in some cases are fortunately being reversed).


(MusicAmg) #32

It is a myth about the taxing here in the USA. The truth is, the people that pay 90% of the taxes are the 1% of the earners. The poor don’t pay taxes. The 10% that do are the middle class. As far as taxing groceries, that is up to the individual states of America. Some states don’t charge a tax, some do. The states that have the highest taxation are now experiencing the highest loss of population. Yes, they move to a location with LESS taxation. It is something you can do in America.

America gets to pay a LOT of foreign debt, with little return. Things are changing.

So, the original post is just fake news…


(Dorro) #33

I agree. Sadly, my post was more of a knee jerk relation to ignorance than your more considered response. I have little faith that the psychopaths currently in power have any interests other than their own. In the chaos to come, I can hope to offer little more than food, drink, shelter and company through that dark night, if fate brings you to my door…


(wolfmanyoda) #34

Yup. The poor end up getting refund checks from the IRS that are higher than what they paid in. Also consider food stamps and such. This is why so many poor people from other countries want in, for all of the handouts.


(burnin) #35

no one can show anything when a receiver is not ready & able to receive…
we are simply striving to share our visions with each other based off of our own perceptions

although modern ego’s mind easily interprets a different, mostly uncomfortable thought or idea as a threat to its “my existence”, soon behavior worse than that of an animal can occur – and gladly human starts treating another as such

yes, it’s tricky, when one tries to communicate with blind & def
so if you can’t exercise your intellectual abilities and theorize on what can or could be… rather join chewing gum fans

& some food for brain

Most likely “people only” as (discriminating) collective are wrong all along by nature since every civilization failed, while individuals & collaborations with other beings always helped with progress - evolved… a case of Gilgamesh?


(sundialsvc4) #36

Posts like the OP are pretty common, and they “funny the numbers” so as to say that “the rich pay nothing” when in fact they pay the highest taxes of all. Furthermore, the OP completely neglects the concept of corporations, which are taxed on every economic transaction that they conduct including a share of payroll taxes which are not what is deducted from your paycheck.

Tax laws are purposely constructed to incentivize the creation of business ventures in order to encourage the creation of new jobs. You need a reason to start a new business, and you need to be able to put money into that new business without immediately being taxed on the proceeds, partly because at the beginning stages there won’t be any proceeds.

“Running a business” is something that most people have no experience with. It’s definitely the hardest way to make a living.


(jaimi) #37

This is completely untrue. It’s like you’re being paid to lie for some reason.

The lowest earners not only don’t pay any income tax, they also get “earned income credit” where they get paid for filing their taxes - up to $6100, depending on how much they made.

In addition, everyone has a personal exemption of $4100.

In addition, sales taxes are not VAT - only the end user pays them.

Your post is simply nonsense, and seems designed to try to incite anger.


(BluePrintRandom) #38

A- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-rights-un/americas-poor-becoming-more-destitute-under-trump-u-n-expert-idUSKCN1IY0C3

the cost of living - inflation - and the cost of basic needs has risen,

the income of the very wealthy has risen and the income of the poor has fallen.

The middle class is hit much harder then the super rich

and the poor - even when helped by the state can’t make ends meet - (it’s very expensive to be poor)

B - https://www.economist.com/united-states/2015/09/03/its-expensive-to-be-poor

the real issue here is the super rich are hiring robots at alarming rates and not hiring people.

C

short story

everything is more expensive and no one makes more.
(TV’s are quite a bit cheaper though :frowning: )


(Ace Dragon) #39

You point out food and beverage inflation, but recent years is seeing it becoming especially bad in certain areas not because companies are getting greedier, but because the market has to correct for the forced increase in wages in every place from restaurants to grocery stores.

People think the state can increase everyone’s purchasing power by making companies pay them more. However, many businesses already make razor-thin margins on their products, so the prices have to go up when the minimum wage does (because of the idea that menial no-skill jobs like cashier should be a lifetime career option).

Nowadays, a McDonald’s worker doesn’t even have to learn to flip burgers anymore, now it’s closing the grill on some patties and opening it a few minutes later. Here’s an idea to drive down prices, why not treat these minimum-wage jobs as the starter jobs they are supposed to be and set wages to be dependent on the needed skill level (if the job is a total cakewalk, then you should really work towards something better as it won’t pay much).

Stuff like “fight for 15” is a major driver for rising prices. It’s not the only one, but the contribution especially in recent years is measurable.


(BluePrintRandom) #40

via automation the cost of generating food is actually dropping exponentially

however the cost of energy is factored in, and transport, and distribution.

somewhere on the planet old growth rainforest is being burned out to grow food, to go on shelves and rot and be thrown away whilst a homeless man outside starves.

Capitalism was created so people could specialize in a craft and even advance the craft through inovation.

fast forward 1000’s of years and we have people with phones that brick after 4 years intentionally so they can sell more phones, we don’t have perfection we have planned obsolescence and endless toil intentionally.

we can now 3d print at the atomic level

with a system like this you could print a optical tweezer array one a chip that was 1000’s more or even millions more optical tweezers, allowing you to 3d print 1000x faster then the initial printer,

the new printer can also print printers.

another useful thing is printing diamond CPU and black diamond solar panels
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/05/diamond-on-silicon-chips-are-running-at.html

so basically I think one day soon, we can print goods ourselves we had never dreamed of
test them, destroy them and reprint another variant of them and document the process,

( benifits / costs / side effects / etc)

we can open source life itself and have everyone work to perfect everything.