American poor people pay over 75% tax, while the rich pay nothing


(BluePrintRandom) #102

@Ace_Dragon
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/07/682986630/prescription-drug-costs-driven-by-manufacturer-price-hikes-not-innovation

The report, published Monday in the journal Health Affairs , found that the cost of brand-name oral prescription drugs rose more than 9 percent a year from 2008 and 2016, while the annual cost of injectable drugs rose more than 15 percent.

“The main takeaway of our study should be that increases in prices of brand-name drugs were largely driven by year-over-year price increases of drugs that were already in the market,” says Immaculata Hernandez, an assistant professor of pharmacy at the University of Pittsburgh, and the lead author of the study.


#103

We have also lost value of the American dollar. And not just america lost it’s dollar value. New drug regulations and laws *might have risen the cost.

I wanted to add something for everyone. Zyprexa was a $856.00 monlty dollar drug. After it’s 10 year expiration, the generic company started selling it for $30.00.

And not just zyprexa, many drug companies have done the same thing.

How could anyone possible afford to pay that much, the anser is medicare and medicaid.


(BluePrintRandom) #104

exactly - we need public entities researching stuff - not just private partnerships.

We recently privatized the Veterans Affairs and it’s been a disaster.


(Renzatic) #105

The caravan wasn’t some random thing George Soros kicked off to drive votes for Democrats during the midterms, if that’s what you’re getting at.

Let’s drop the conspiracy theories, people. Sometimes a thing that looks like a thing is actually that thing.


(BluePrintRandom) #106

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/10/29/american-policy-is-responsible-migrant-caravan/?utm_term=.19dd227532c2

the caravans are our fault kinda


(Renzatic) #107

You could probably drill down to all kinds of different reasons that ended up helping contribute to the root cause of the caravan, but at the end of the day, it wasn’t a conspiracy, it was just this sad thing that happened, and ended up being overreacted upon.

Hell, it was barely a month ago, and now that the fervor’s died down, people hardly even remember it.


(BeerBaron) #109

In other words, people are getting upset not about the plight of the patients who can’t afford expensive medication, but about the fact that some [censored] is raising the price by some high percentage.

From a patient’s perspective, it doesn’t matter whether a hike of 200% or 20000% makes the medicine unaffordable. It doesn’t matter if a price cut of 50% still leaves it out of reach.

So what? You can’t rely on people being fair and righteous. If Shkreli didn’t do it, someone else could’ve done it, keeping a lower profile, possibly raising the price more slowly - without anyone noticing. Maybe we should all be thanking Shkreli for “raising awareness”.

There’s a beautiful mechanism that prevents even the most vile market actors from raising prices to insane levels: market competition.

There’s a good argument to be made that corporations deserve a limited monopoly on the medicine they developed, but there’s no good argument that overbearing regulation should prevent competition on run-of-the-mill drugs.


(Ace Dragon) #110

One of the most potent ways (outside of what was mentioned already) to try to get drug prices down would be for the insurance companies to simply stop covering those products. One reason why drug prices keep going up is because the pharmaceutical executives know the insurers will simply cough up the cash to include them in their coverage (which in turn leads to higher premiums for everyone).

If a company raises the price of a single pill to 1000 bucks and they find themselves unable to sell it, the inevitable conclusion is to lower the price.


There’s also another way, and that for people to be vigilant and know if they’re taking something they don’t actually need. For instance, there are tons of kids taking ADHD pills who don’t actually need them because of the issue of over-diagnosis. There are also other drugs you could probably avoid simply by way of making changes to your lifestyle. What also doesn’t help is the spate of psychology “studies” that could attempt to put millions more people on pills because they’re too attached to the internet or to their library of video games,


(Renzatic) #111

The thing is, we’re not talking about luxury items here, things that are nice to have, but if you can’t afford them, well, get a better job. If Apple were to decide to mark up the iPad by, say, 100%, people would grumble and complain, sure, but they wouldn’t riot in the streets.

We’re talking about medicines. Things some people need to take unerringly, unceasingly to, you know, not die. It’s what makes this particular topic so fraught, and harder to defend through standard capitalist doctrine without looking like you’re being cold for the simple sake of being cold. If someone can’t afford to buy their kid a nice new 100" TV or a Tesla Model 3, well, them’s the breaks. Kid will have to settle for a beat up Civic, and a 35" off-brand from Walmart. No one’s entitled to the nicest things money can buy unless you can actually buy them for themselves.

…but when you’re talking about medicine, where a parent will have to spend a high percentage of their monthly income in perpetuum making sure their child has the right regiment of pills necessary to prevent them from having their heart seize up on them in the dead of night, it stings a bit more when a pharma company decides to jack up the price of their medication by a certain percentage.

It’s what makes people like Shkreli seem a little more crass and predatory than most. His company didn’t even develop the drug in question. It’s been around since the 50’s. He merely bought the rights to it, then proceeded to attempt making a quick buck on it, potentially risking the financial well being and lives of everyone prescribed to his medication.

So you can see why some people might be a little more touchy about this subject than most.

Here’s the thing: I do believe corporations deserve a limited monopoly on the drugs they developed. They spent the money to develop them, after all. They have every right to make tons of money off of it.

Where we disagree is on just because Company X can, doesn’t mean Company X should, that what Shkreli did wasn’t good business, it was exploitative.

As for the various regulations imposed upon our pharmaceutical industries, preventing them from competing, I’ll have to look that up. From what I understand, most of the regulations merely set guidelines and standards that all new medications have to pass and adhere to, which I’m all for, because it keeps these companies from rushing untested drugs to market simply because they looked to have some random beneficial effect in one study they did, and no one knows what side effects it may have. If it’s overly expensive, then so be it.

But I do think competition is generally a good thing, and if certain regulations are keeping these big pharmaceutical companies from releasing opposing drugs, then…no.


(sundialsvc4) #112

I’m not going to begin to speculate as to "where the caravan came from, who organized it, etc."

What I saw was a large number of people being made to walk very long distances as though they were so many cattle … specifically to make a point. (They could have been transported in comfortable, heated and air-conditioned buses.) Then, they were hurled against a specific national border – but, not attempting to gain legal entry. Even children(!) were used as pawns.

Obviously I would like to find the people who did this to them, because I consider such people to be the very worst form of criminals (and the people to be the corresponding plaintiffs).

The French government gave the US a very famous statue which stands today in New York Harbor, in recognition: not only of the lengths to which the American government had gone to help “huddled masses yearning to breathe free,” but of the lawful efforts (and sacrifices) made by the “huddled masses” themselves.

The people who were herded in this way meant nothing to the wretched people who herded them, and their situation was hopeless by design whether they made it across the line or not. I have zero tolerance for anyone who treats his fellow man in such a way, especially when he is exploiting people who are quite powerless to fight back.

If you want to gain entry to a country, there is still a way to do it – and we have a statue to prove it. And, this way will protect your rights as a human. It will not treat you like cattle and then throw you over a wall as a pawn in someone else’s wicked game.


#113

It was on the news, that most of the immigrants coming across the border illegally, are running from their police. Just recently on the news.


#114

I think the president, who is the leader, should get what he demands. He’s the leader. If the democrats are not working with him, then they are working against him. By not giving the leader what he wants, they are not doing their job. For this they should be fired. Just like a manager will fire someone for not doing what was commanded, the members of congress should be fired for not giving President Trump what he wants.

If they are in disagreement with what the President wants, they should say so, along with their argument for it. But they should not work against him, but with him. they need to do what their job is, and obey the President’s commandments.


(Daedalus_MDW) #115

clearly you have never taken an american government class or werent paying attention the first time.

the president isnt all powerful. and should not be treated as such.


(icyou520) #116

Ummm I think you clearly do NOT understand the role of the President.

He works for US!!! it is our tax dollars (and votes) that “hire” all politicians. They all work for US the people of this country (at least they are supposed to).

The President should be doing what the people want, not what HE wants!


(tischbein3) #117

So this discussion goes from high taxes to immigrants ?
oh boy… not here also.

Anyway as for the topic starter I’m all in for higher tax rates for the low and mid income class… why? Simple market 101: The higher tax they have to pay, the higher their wages have to be… If you cut taxes by lets say 5% there is always someone out there who will use those 5% to offer their work for 5% less income. Wich leads to a race to the bottom, becasue others have to also cut their wages by 5% to kept in biz.
Higher taxes (wich should also go with services for the taxpayer) will create the need for higher wages.


#118

I think what we the people, along with the government are fighting is equilibrium. (taxes)

Yes it’s true, the american governemnt works for the people. At least that’s how it’s suppose to work. But in the last 30 years they have not been doing that. (immigration)


(sundialsvc4) #119

Agreeing with the general consensus – the President is a chief executive officer, but not a dictator. (S)He is supposed to have strong opinions and to provide leadership in certain directions, as any good executive does, but the President actually has very little power. Power is vested in the Congress. The President must lead by consensus. Even his military power as Commander-in-Chief is held in check by the Congress.

Q: Who originally said this? (more or less …)

“I can make the Army do anything I want, but I can’t make the Congress do anything.”

A: George Washington – President #1.

You’re not being “disloyal” if you say that the President of the United States is full of sh*t. If that’s what you think, you can say it, and you won’t be hauled away to a gulag for doing so. (But it’s best if you have a reason to say it, and if you can say what you think should be done instead, and why.)


(MusicAmg) #120

ok… so, based on the original post of this thread, America taxes the poor the most, blah blah blah. Still don’t understand why everyone wants to come here, if that was true.

So, with that logic, the thread has a point. If it’s that bad, why come to America? Why would you want to flee what is perceived as the worse to endure even worse?

I think that OP has a point and should influence people that want to come to America, illegal or otherwise, to NOT DO THAT. Stay away! They are obviously better options. So, the OP has helped by pointing that flaw out. kudos, keep those thoughts rolling in… America needs you! So, there is the southern border wall solution… Show exactly why America is so bad of a place and profess that claim everywhere possible and you have saved the tax payers 5.1 billion dollars by yourself… you sir should get a medal!


(joseph raccoon) #121

Something people keep forgetting whenever the topic of taxes comes up is the concept of efficiency, I’m sure we have all seen those indexes for charities and let’s be real, if I’m going to give money out of my pocket to those in need, I want most of said money to reach the people that need it the most, granted I am aware that there is going to be some overhead expenses, life is life but…this is something we tend not to apply to our tax dollars.

I have lived in both rural and inner cities, and one thing that I’ve found that is quite common in both areas is that they are sinfully wasteful with tax dollars, in both places I’ve seen schools get more and more taxes book marked to them and very seldom has said taxes gone to anything that would have a direct impact on the students, normally it is some inlaw or another of some someone important getting hired by the system (BTW Kiddies, the word of the day is: nepotism) And the VA hospitals tend to be very much the same way, and quite often you will find nepotism in many government funded services. And to an extent it is a thing that is going to happen, I expect a police officer’s son to be familiar with the ins and outs of being a police officer and know the system well enough to prime their life for that outcome.

But…in the states we tend to not look at that small picture (which to think of this in personal budget terms, those tax inefficiencies are kinda like coffee and snack stops that are individually inexpensive but devastate your budget) and we tend to overlook that the United States is an effect the most socialist country in the world, save that the focus for our socialism tends to be the people outside of our borders.

I’m not against taxes or government aid, but…we need to focus on us first and hold the system accountable for its inefficiencies.


#122

The only place I know where a donation actually helps people is a church of God. However, there are fake church of God spread all over the US. One would have to do research on the usage of those donations, of each individual church. The church will feed poor people. Some of them will help them with other things.