Do you hate the jews?
I don’t.
no i don’t hate the jews.
but i do think that isrealites should FVCK OFF.
–edit–
just to clarify my view is only directed towards those in isreal who are against palistinians, who are agressing and casueing pain and suffering in the palistinian teritorys. to those who are settling in isreal becasue of settlment deals and are ignorant to the situation they are in, and to those who are in isreal or palistine that are in any way even thinking bad thoughts towards the other side.
the conflict there has become so one sided i have little if not no compassion towards any isreali causes. but at the saem time don’t suport some palistinian actions (although i do feel for their cause)
it is a co-incidence that its a jewish state and i have nothing againt the jewish people or religion and agree 100% with bapsis on his views about the world being full of to much hate and being constructive. i have no problem debating issues and talking about hate, but in the end face to face every individual will always get my respect nomatter what. even george bush would get my respect as a human being although i hate him more than anythign LOL
i do have hate in my mind but not my life, i hate agressors (and yes it is always an opinion as to who is an agressor or not, so i don’t want to get in a debate on this one)
oh and this post was started as a trolling exercise, i unfortunatly fell into the trap.
Alltaken
I have always reserved my hatred for individuals who deserve it, and never have directed it towards a group or single person simple for a relegious beleif, sexual prefference, or any other reason.
I think this world is too full of hate, its too easy to hate, for whatever reason. I for one want to make sure i spend my life sending out positive energies and wouldn’t even waste my time hating.
Matt
Blend on, and blend well!!!
Who would you rather have for your neighbor, alltaken?
-
A family who has defended itself with (mostly) restraint upon repeated attacks and attempts to remove them from existence, and the continued explicit threats of such activities; who produces beautiful art and cool things for everyone in the neighborhood to use; who have had the capacity for years to utterly destroy those who seek to deliberately destroy them, but choose not to do so because of their humanity.
-
A family who has a big honking party every time someone they don’t like is hurt or killed; who actively declares and attempts to wipe out whole other families in the neighborhood ultimately because they are “just there”; who not only have no compunction about killing women, children and other non-combatants but actually do so deliberately and are not shy about their desire to do so; who when offered 98% of the things they claim to be asking for reject such things and start killing again; who contribute nothing to the neighborhood but death death and death.
Which one would you like to have as your neighbor? I’ve said it before alltaken, but it bears repeating: I am glad we do not live in the world that you desire. May you never hold public office or any position of power whatsoever.
BTW, you might as well go whole hog and refer to those folks you hate as “Zionists.” Maybe you can get Yassar and his flunkies to give you an honorary Hamas membership pin.
— blah blah blah American blah blah naive blah blah cowboys blah blah tools of the jews blah blah blah —
harkyman
i do not wish to have a debate with you, it is obvious that we disagree and whatever you say will not change my views on the issue jsut as what ever i say won’t change your views.
lets face the facts, we have different perspectives, experiences, and values.
my experiences/perspectives including but not limited to, the news i listen to, the country i live in, the language i speak, and the way i was raised all have an effect on the way i percive and view situations.
jsut as the same goes for you.
this is the thing you can not say who is right or wrong because it is all 100% opinion based.
i have done hours of research on the internet about the palistinian/isreali conflict because i was interested heavily in the history of it.
i came to a personal opinion based on the raw facts that isreal is in the wrong.
now you may disagree with my view and thats ok but i will go and get the stats for you as i have had a simialr debate with an american earlier this year in which he was actually amazed at what he was not being told on his news chanel.
you can disagree with me as much as you want.
Alltaken
TOTAL INJURIES
- 1 Israeli is wounded every 27 hrs, 42 mins
- 1 Palestinian is wounded every 55 mins
CIVILIAN INJURIES
- 1 Israeli civilian is wounded every 39 hrs, 57 mins
- 1 Palestinian civilian is wounded every 1 hour and 5 mins
(1 to 40 ratio)
TOTAL CASUALTIES
- 1 Israeli is killed every 30 hrs, 33 mins
- 1 Palestinian is killed every 10 hours, 9 mins
(1 to 3 ratio)
CIVILIAN CASUALTIES
- 1 Israeli civilian is killed in Israel every 71 hrs, 12 mins (2.96 days)
- 1 Palestinian civilian is killed every 11 hrs, 57 mins
(1 to 6 ratio)
edit----- here is a link to the UN site which discuses the history of the cnflict, sugested readng for you.
its a very valid source i belive
Although I am very familiar with the history of the conflict, I will read the document to which you provided the link. Thanks.
Honest discussion here – not being snarky:
What are the sources for your statistics? Is it a single source, or did you compile them? How do you define your terms? For each side, how do you define combatant/noncombatant? Do your Pali casualty figures include those Palis murdered by Hamas et al. as collaborators? With the relatively small raw sample provided in the conflict, a small definitional shift can really skew the statistics.
Speaking of, and since I’m about to go read your provided link, perhaps you could take a look at this rather rigorous stat analysis of casualty figures and the conclusions thereof:
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=439
The raw figures in this analysis are not in dispute. You have to read the whole thing, though, if you’re going to bother at all, as the conclusions reached are not necessarily what you’d expect when you see the first graph.
BTW, I’ve no desire to actually debate this either. I just want to check out your sources in an honest spirit of always being open to listening to another’s opinion.
Also btw, were we debating, I’d have to dispute your claim that there is no objective standard of right and wrong and that everything is 100% opinion based. This is empirically incorrect: cf. WWII. If enough people thought facism/nazism was right, would that make it so? I think not. If you really believe your statement, then that means that you DO think so, in which case, well… that’s why I won’t debate it. This one’s definitionally a binary position.
Later.
Just read the UN document you linked to. It is woefully incomplete. Astoundingly one-sided. It failed to mention that in both of the cited wars (1948 and 1967) the Palestinians together with the assistance of neighboring Arab nations obviously and declaratively started those wars! Don’t believe it? Here’s a link to an Israeli history of just the 1948 war (which may on the face decrease your faith in it – it, however, provides copious citations of the relevant historic documents and UN statements/declarations by the Pali leadership, etc.):
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/1948_War.html
If you know the course of events of the 1967 war, Israel is even more clearly in the right. It is interesting how the document in your link neglects to mention the aggressors in either case, but only states that Israel seized land, which in fact they did, as they HAD to capture the land from which the attacks were based.
It is also interesting how it wholey fails to mention the only Pali tactic – suicide bombers. The moral equivalence of this document astounds me.
Wow. If that’s what you consider a good source, it’s no wonder our views are so far apart.
Well, I read yours, so please read mine.
ok first off. i may be able to find the source of the website the stats were from, but i don’t think i have it anymore.
it was stats i got from a post i posted about 5 months ago, i would have had the site bookmarked at the time, but i have changed browser 3 times since and deleted temp files/bookmarks on those occasions.
as for your site i’d jsut like to say
.il = Israel
thanks for the propaganda 
i did look at it however.
the main thing to me has nothng to do with combatant or non-combatant people but the totals. even in my stats i really don’t care if they were or wern’t combatant because thats relative also.
i provided a link to a source from the UN yes the UN, i always filter my sources from both sides.
a website showing palistinian stats is ruled out jsut as a site showing an isreali POV. i have read many isreali sites that show the isreali POV and its rather interesting to read. but in the end i disregard them as factual jsut as i disregard any site thats palistinian.
you can disregard the stats i provided if you wish but they were filtered, i realise however that the combatant and non combatant numbers are opinion based. even when i posted it i realised that. but the total deaths are totally relavent. jsut as the toal deaths based on the info on the isreali site you showed me are relavent.
Alltaken
oh p.s. hitler was a complete dick head, but to some people he was the best thing ever, again tis relative. if he had won the war, right now i bet you would be saying he was the best thing ever. but you have been raised to hate him just as i have . the winners write the history books
@ Alltaken: I think the diference in opinion is due to the fact that there are two seperate histories. You obviously researched the one put out by the UN (yes, thats the organization that has Syria as the chair on human rights) but there is another one that consists of recorded historical events:
http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/palestinians.html
I actually don’t have the time or inclination to find unbiased links but the one above is a good place to start for anyone who is willing to be honest.
%<
well, i guess ill get into this abit…
i dont hate jews. i have hated jews, but only specific people, and not because they are jewish. i sorta feel like Bapsis. i dont like hating, but i cant help it. i also agree with Alltaken about the isrealis (however u f*ckin spell it) i think that it IS possible for the world to get along, but everybody has to want to.
actually fligh i did more research on the history of the isrealis POV.
i read a site very simialr to the one you showed me.
it was rather a good read and gave me a lot of insight into the whole thing but had some fundimental issues in it that made me question its validity, i then went out and found the UN document.
just remember the palestinians (and all arabs) are semites too. So a truly “anti-semite” is both anti arab and anti jew, and its possible to “take sides” in the palestinian-isreali conflict without being anti-semitic- though someone could say you were anti-isreali or anti-palestinian (the most they could say was anti-jew or anti-arab, though that would be hyperbole).
just arguing the semantics of semetism 
For the record I’m non of the anti-s. But I’m not going to read this thread anymore-this issue can make me very 
disscussion is good though. I’m sure you can get along without me.
alltaken – you and I have the luxury of disagreeing. Speaking our minds. You can stand on an Israeli street corner and say that you think they’re a bunch of war mongers and that YHWH can pound sand and someone might shout at you or argue with you. That’s free speech. It’s a liberal value that you and I and the Israelis support. Some of us fight for such things.
Try that in the Pali territories, decrying Hamas and saying that Mohammed (pbuhda) and Allah blow goats for quarters, and you’ll be dead. And then your dead body will be ripped to pieces by a mob. If those are the guys you’re rooting for, well…
I’ll be friends with the Israelis. You go be friends with the barbarians. If the barbarians change their ways I’ll be happy to be friends with them, too. Until then, though… they’re all yours.
Why don’t you just replace the L in Pali with a K .
Who used tanks to destroy hospitals and schools?
Now, who am I suppose to feel sorry for again?
Martin
No one’s asking for sympathy.
And if you build bombs in the basement of a school, who is at fault when the school is destroyed by those whom the bombs were built to attack? When the IDF mows down the houses of suicide bombers or bulldozes locales that have housed terrorist groups, they evacuate the civilians first. The Palis deliberately target civilians. There is no comparison.
Also - I’ve been working really hard on my BLENDER ARTWORK lately - everyone in this thread can take a break from off-topic discussions and KICK ME WHERE IT COUNTS in the WIP forum:
If peace broke in the Middle East, Fox and CNN would have nothing to rant about. The arms industry would also lose their best customers: the Arabs and the Israelis.
No group of people, national, social, religious or political, ever demonstrates continued innocence over time. Individuals of almost every group almost always express decency, but when people join groups critical thought seems to evaporate. The concepts of morality often fade when people are brought together as a coherent force.
There are few nations and religious groups that have not perpetrated egregious acts against their fellow humans. Usually the groups that haven’t done horrible things just haven’t had the power to do so. Some of the worst offenders are the groups that proclaim their goodness.
It is interesting when people still blame the Jews for the world’s social and economic problems. This is a leftover from the Crusades when the Church decided they needed more money for their centuries of genocide, and Jews were an easy, difficult to defend minority for “fundraising.” Even though the current number of Jews is amazing small compared to other religious groups, for some reason some people still feel they are some kind of “secret club” that holds power and dominion over economic markets, jobs, and politics.
Thing is, you could join the club if you thought it would get you that power. You can convert to Judaism. Go ahead and do it and let us know if that makes you a Palestinian-killing, economically powerful dude in the “secret Jew club.”
Christians have perpetrated many atrocities, but we don’t judge all Christians for the hundreds of millions killed in the name of Christ throughout the last millennium. Likewise, Muslims have been doing some bad things, especially recently - but we don’t judge all of them as being evil, either. So what is the double-standard that allows people to hate Jews?
akator - spot on and well said.
I find the growing popular acceptance of casual antisemetism to be disturbing, at the very least. That’s why I resolved a while back to not keep my mouth shut or my fingers still when I encountered it in person or en virtuo, like here.