Anyone think it would be cool to have a stack exchange for feature requests?

[cekuhnen]

There is really a difference between generating a flood of suggestions

and

curating a list of duable proposals with developers involved for feedback.

tiny things like the mentioned SAW function a dev could easily do when they see it and have a moment
but more complex things are a different story.

For example think about the 3D cursor you cannot drag and snap it
Pivot point cannot be set in edit mode.
The pivot point cannot be moved.

This are some areas where one must also think about what needs to be changed, how it could be done,
and how it would help Blender in the long run or if it would collide with other workflows.

That’s why I personally favor smaller circle focused groups then an open for everybody.

[MatsuikoHiroka]

its possible in blender
3d cursor snap to selection or grid and Pivot Point Set in Edit Mode

one missing is manipulator at pivot point … my work around is just use a single vertex like this

its still fast to set pivot point

[cekuhnen]

I assume you wrote an add-on?

[MatsuikoHiroka]

my mistake and i forgot that you cant edit pivot point in edit mode but it can be achieve by using add on

im using the add on called quick origin made by ( ishidourou ).
im using it start from 2.72 until now and i find it much faster than using default setting up origin because it has more keystroke to press than the plugin

and i hope that in future in will be implemented in blender
because plugin sometimes suddenly broken when new version blender comes out

i hope there will be feature request in future for blender

often people make suggestion in general discussion here at blenderartist

but it get buried away fast
i prefer a vote system where people can upvote and downvote /
and can discuss about it

the created topic can be sorted base from upvote and downvote or number of replies / views so a developer can quickly view / check get ideas from thread

[jedfrechette]

@JulianSeverin

@jedfrechette, I know but the point I’m trying to make is that there are systems which are better suited

If they’re better suited why aren’t other open source projects using them?

I actually find it telling that there don’t appear to be any open source implementations of these customer feedback systems. To make their lives easier, developers have released open source versions of every conceivable tool in the development process. Off the top of my head, I can think of half a dozen open source issue tracking systems, yet there don’t appear to be any customer feedback systems. Almost without exception, these same developers have decided that the best way for them to track feature requests is within a single bug/feature database.

I guess at the end of the day I’m a Uniformitarian. When I see an entire industry operating effectively in one way, I find it difficult to believe that Blender is a special snowflake that somehow needs to go its own way.

I hope I’m not coming off to harshly. That’s not my intent. I’m actually really excited to hear a Blender developer say that a way to track requests is needed so don’t let me discourage you. I just would like to see the Blender project track requests in a way that wastes as little of its precious resources as possible while still being effective.

@cekuhnen

That’s why I personally favor smaller circle focused groups then an open for everybody.

You mean like the UI Team? Sorry I couldn’t help it ;). There’s certainly room for both approaches but regardless of source it still seems like a sensible idea to record the feedback in a single central database.

[ideasman42]

@jedfrechette

I actually find it telling that there don’t appear to be any open source implementations of these customer feedback systems.

See: open-source alternatives to uservoice
(phpback seems close, though I don’t know if its any good)

[jedfrechette]

@ideasman42

(PHPBack seems close, though I don’t know if its any good)

Good find, it looks like one guy felt an itch, but is anybody else using it?

Half of the open issues in their tracker are Enhancementrequests. They do seem to be trying to eat their own dog food by hosting a feedback instance on their website: http://www.phpback.org/feedback/

What I find interesting is that most of the ideas on their feedback site seem to have been created by the main developer, while most of the Enhancement requests on the issue tracker have been opened by external users. In other words, although the developer is trying to get users to use the feedback site, most of the actual user feedback is coming in via the mixed bug/request issue tracker. It’s hard to go against the social norms of the open source community.

[Miatpi]

I’m so glad I saw this thread and I’m just all in for the the idea of a feature request thread!

I’m really positive for a reputation system like the one stackexchange have; on one hand it spur people to collaborate, on another hand it could be an answer to out moderator problem (people with a certatin amount of reputation gain moderator abilities)!
And to prevent a flood of unserious requests there can be a limit of how many requests you can have at a time. Starting on 1 the limit increase the more reputation you have.

[Simon_h]

Thanks Miatpi I like your attitude So maybe it’s best to keep Requests out of code work but i tell you what; It’s a crying shame if they don’t clip onto one of the official websites where they’ll be seen. I’d love to see a requests section in the ‘get involved’ corner of the www.blender.org site.

Also Just out of curiosity, I don’t suppose it’s possible to create a temporary site to host one of the alternatives that isdeasman42 suggested? The proof is in the pudding with a lot of good blender requests, and i think this is a big one. Maybe we could use a crowd funder to pay for a web service to host the site, dev and a moderator. Mean-while the core team get a feel for the usefulness of such a feature. People will jump onto this bandwagon and it will go the distance and hopefully some devs will catch a ride and realize it deserves a nitro engine.

I think then the big first step is making a decent presentation to the blender community at large. There are a A LOT of people who wish for this kind of system so that their voices will be heard when it matters. With that in mind, we probably don’t need the most AMAZING presentation. A simple explanation of the problem and our solution. Maybe ONE design mockup, a few sketches for the sake of explaination and a link to the crowd funding page. No Andrew price level of organisation is required in my personal opinion, the idea speaks for itself in a couple of dot points.

Blender Foundation MAY reject it… maybe. But with a donation page ontop of a system that really works, There’d be a constant stream of activity that would keep the site alive. At least long enough for BF to see how well it works.

Thoughts?

[pitiwazou]

And Why not a part on blender.org for request and funding ?
Like that if an idea is really popular, peoples will make donations and if it’s enough to hire a dev for that, that will be in blender and everyone will be happy.

I know, it’s not as simple as that, but, I think it’s a good idea.

[ideasman42]

@Simon h

Thanks Miatpi I like your attitude So maybe it’s best to keep Requests out of code work but i tell you what; It’s a crying shame if they don’t clip onto one of the official websites where they’ll be seen. I’d love to see a requests section in the ‘get involved’ corner of the www.blender.org site.

Don’t see why being official is important, (Blender Artist, Market, Blender.Stackexchange, Graphicall aren’t official). If its a success - it will be linked to and come up on searches.

@Simon h

Also Just out of curiosity, I don’t suppose it’s possible to create a temporary site to host one of the alternatives that isdeasman42 suggested? The proof is in the pudding with a lot of good blender requests, and i think this is a big one. Maybe we could use a crowd funder to pay for a web service to host the site, dev and a moderator. Mean-while the core team get a feel for the usefulness of such a feature. People will jump onto this bandwagon and it will go the distance and hopefully some devs will catch a ride and realize it deserves a nitro engine.

Its possible, you can get very cheap hosting these days too.

@Simon h

I think then the big first step is making a decent presentation to the blender community at large. There are a A LOT of people who wish for this kind of system so that their voices will be heard when it matters. With that in mind, we probably don’t need the most AMAZING presentation. A simple explanation of the problem and our solution. Maybe ONE design mockup, a few sketches for the sake of explaination and a link to the crowd funding page. No Andrew price level of organisation is required in my personal opinion, the idea speaks for itself in a couple of dot points.

Initially this is likely to have a lot of activity, I’m more concerned with how well the site is moderated & run in 1-2 years time (see blenderstorm).

@Simon h

Blender Foundation MAY reject it… maybe. But with a donation page ontop of a system that really works, There’d be a constant stream of activity that would keep the site alive. At least long enough for BF to see how well it works.

Thoughts?

Not sure why people here are so focused on having Blender Foundation run the site, in fact I think there is more value in being distributed then attempting to centralize so much.
People who are motivated to work on this and willing to put in the time moderating it can probably do a better job running the site.

[Simon_h]

Thanks guys

Not sure why people here are so focused on having Blender Foundation run the site, in fact I think there is more value in being distributed then attempting to centralize so much.
People who are motivated to work on this and willing to put in the time moderating it can probably do a better job running the site.

Well in judging this well, a couple of extra things to weigh up:

-Seems like the closer the branch is to the tree, the more likely people will notice it. That is, if you put something close to the place where it’s looked for you’re going to get more attention on it. Do you see the site getting more traffic if it’s on a separate place from THE official website? How so?
Less complication, more integration, less chaos, more zen. People want to help blender so they’ll go to where it makes sense to go, the ‘Get involved’ section of blender.org. It just makes cognitive sense.

Side note 1: If we get a system that places high rep users in moderation, then the more users the merrier!
Side note 2: Using google, you can push the page up in results so it can be found easier. But ‘www.Blender.org/requests’ is pretty logical anyhow right?

-The more integral the request site is to the main site, the more it becomes a reflection of blender foundation, the more they care about keeping it around and supported. If you kick over something in someone’s house, doesn’t matter how crappy it is, you’ve kicked over something they chose to own. And It’d make them more likely to divide excess volunteer requests to the right place. Someone may want to help but all their potential helping power is moderating. In short, the power of the foundation is on the side of the request site. Protected from extinction.

-More likely they are likely to make it possible to move requests in the dev site if they are approved.

So that was what i could think of in favor of having it on the blender.org site. It seems like a site connected to blender will live longer.

But we don’t need to talk about this aspect in much detail now right? I think with or without the main site, the system would work. That decision could even be made later on if we have an agreement. Is there any major problem with the rest of the plan that would need reconsidering before setting further goals in motion?

[Fweeb (Jason van Gumster)]

@Simon h

-Seems like the closer the branch is to the tree, the more likely people will notice it. That is, if you put something close to the place where it’s looked for you’re going to get more attention on it. Do you see the site getting more traffic if it’s on a separate place from THE official website? How so?

Well… this site seems to be doing pretty well for traffic on its own.

@Simon h

So that was what i could think of in favor of having it on the blender.org site. It seems like a site connected to blender will live longer.

The point being made is that sites don’t exist in a vacuum. They require people (well, at least one dedicated person) to manage and maintain them. Without the people, it doesn’t matter where the site is hosted. It will languish. The wiki/manual and (arguably) code.blender.org both suffered from this a different times in Blender’s history… and both of those are part of the blender.org domain.

@Simon h

But we don’t need to talk about this aspect in much detail now right? I think with or without the main site, the system would work. That decision could even be made later on if we have an agreement.

There’s no need for an agreement. Just do it. Promote it. Show it’s viability. There are a few of us who’ve been kicking around ideas outside of this channel, but they’ll take time to implement properly (IMHO). If you can get there faster, then I say go ahead.

[lsscpp]

@jpb06

Trello, like Epic does for Unreal projects? Github issue tracking? deviantArt group?

I like the Trello idea, simple free and already available out there.
A little group of devs (cough those who read here cough…) might select and add the features for the poll, keeping their number as low as needed, basing the choice on complexity, usefulness, lack-of-workarounds-ness etc…
This might just be seen as a side developement channel, kind of a “courtesy” for long-time (and long-asking) users that want to see little features added in.

[jpb06]

@lsscpp

I like the Trello idea, simple free and already available out there.
A little group of devs (cough those who read here cough…) might select and add the features for the poll, keeping their number as low as needed, basing the choice on complexity, usefulness, lack-of-workarounds-ness etc…
This might just be seen as a side developement channel, kind of a “courtesy” for long-time (and long-asking) users that want to see little features added in.

It was a deliberate provocation on my part, to show, beyond reasonable (and unreasonable too) doubt that there is a political will to prevent any “interference” with the Supreme (and Fearless) Leader not-so-benevolent dictatorship on Blender.

[Simon_h]

I use trello and I feel like any public board is more of a public demonstration of planning rather than a method of involving user initiative. I even tried to create a board when the conversation started to test out it’s viability and came up short. The biggest problem is that you can’t create a ticket if you’re a casual user, but if you’re a member of the board you can make all kinds of drastic changes including just deleting everything.

---

Alright, so general consensus is that a separate site is fine. If i could make a suggestion it’s that the site might be named something a bit more intuitive than ‘blenderstorm’ like ‘blenderfeedback.org’ or something. That might be found easier. Well when I have time, Maybe i’ll try creating a mock-up and some sketches and get some feedback here. Although UI is not my specialty, I’ve done it before, and i have 4 years of professional experience as an artist (in games). But anyone else who specializes in it, or knows someone who would, please let me know. Worse case scenario, i will be able to consult some UI pros. Anyhow i won’t be getting to that RIGHT NOW so there’s time to intervene haha

I’m also thinking about how funding would work. I’m interested in the mechanics but i don’t know much about it. Would we have ad revenue and donations or just donations? and if we have to rely on ads, do we allow it to switch off if users get more points or when there’s enough donation money - or both? I’m wondering if it’d be possible to have a system where pooled money automatically goes to a compounded account and gets deducted automatically to either pay full time admin/mod their dues (if that there’s enough for that) and the web service the hosts the site (priority payment?). Any experts on this matter?

Again I’m not sure if i need to know it but i just find it interesting, feels like we’re setting up the fuel system for a rocket

[ideasman42]

Not sure its worth trying to setup full funding as a first step (maybe more hassle then its worth).

A basic test run doesn’t have to be such a big investment, maybe a nice weekend project.

• Find 2 or 3 people willing to chip in for the $5 a month server cost.
• Find someone who’s used a command line and setup a lamp stack.
• Install a feature request system.

If its a success, investigate how the site can be maintained - maybe donations are enough.

---

[sub]Ok, to be serious, I’m no sys-admin, so not sure how much works really involved .
Quite possibly a noob would botch the install and have every ones passwords owned by scammers within week.
so take this advice with a grain of salt![/sub]

[Fweeb (Jason van Gumster)]

I agree with Campbell on this. At this point, funding isn’t a big deal.

@ideasman42

• Find 2 or 3 people willing to chip in for the $5 a month server cost.
• Find someone who’s used a command line and setup a lamp stack.
• Install a feature request system.

FWIW, I already have the first two of those done and was looking at PHPBack. However, I was looking around for a system based on a slightly different stack (prefer Nginx, Python, and perhaps sqlite… though traffic might dictate something a bit beefier). But mayhaps I’ll give PHPBack a spin this weekend. Maybe it’s sufficient enough for a start.

[ideasman42]

@Fweeb

However, I was looking around for a system based on a slightly different stack (prefer Nginx, Python, and perhaps sqlite… though traffic might dictate something a bit beefier). But mayhaps I’ll give PHPBack a spin this weekend. Maybe it’s sufficient enough for a start.

While looking into this I found https://www.biostars.org/?sort=answers&limit=all%20time&q= which runs https://github.com/ialbert/biostar-central (Python/Django, served on Nginx). Though I’m not sure how much work it is to change it from a Q&A site to something else (suspect its not a weekend project).

[voyager25]

Maybe one could use the software of blender.today for this purpose, it features user-submitted content, a voting system, a comment-system and it is open-source.