Art Evolution

I would like to share with the community some thoughts I´m having since a few years…
-First of all I want to say that I do not want to ofend anyone, nor sound like a grandpa saying foolish things-

I´m the kind of guy who is getting sick of seeing art about war, beast machines, killing, horror…and suffering. And I consider I am a guy just like you, with a normal life, who use poluting cars, consume electronics, and drink beer with fellows after work.

The thing is…do we need to keep going on with suffering-art?

Every day I see renders of guns, blood, hell…etc…Well, it´s ok, but don´t you feel that that kind of art polutes your beeing? I also played quake for hours, or battlefield with friends, but when it comes to offer art to the world, I just can´t think in “suffering-art”.

I think that we see a lot of that kind of creation just because it´s easier to impress people that way. It´s easy to “touch” peoples heart with something rough, like just mentioned before.

But it´s a LOT harder to “touch” people and impress them with beauty. If you want to get a nice modeled face, it is easier to impress with a monster-face, rather than an angel-like face. It´s just a lot easier. It´s easier to impress masses with fear rather than beauty! So I think this is why we see more and more machine/monster/weapon renders. And hey, I also did some of that!

My thought is…when will art really evolutionate? Beatuy is behind things, and it´s hard to represent it. Yes, you can make a war scene and show somthing beautyful behind that, but honestly, you have to bea a MASTER GENIOUS to really achieve it. Sometimes when I´m falling asleep in bed, I start dreaming about beautyfull worlds, or things, and I realize how hard is to make a nice render like these dreams…

I see the world as fantastic creation where life learns to rise from ashes and shadows, and find beauty an joy everywhere.
And I think that someday, art should make a step forward, and also evolutionate.

What we do, is a mirror of what we have inside.

ps: Why everyone imagine aliens armed, with beast machines, and with bad intesions? we can´t even come out of our planet, I think that the day a civilisation does it, it would be the day they colaborate all together in peace, therefore, they should look like peacefull, joyfull, with nice “spaceships”…something more harmonious…don´t you think?

there is imo is as much of the hell/monster etc art peices as any other type of peice.

But, remember a few things. People think in nightmare scenerio’s quite easily, its human nature to imagine the world possible outcome, as its the humans way of making sure you are prepared for the worst. This would happen when a cave man comes across, lets say a dinosaur (unreal but you know =-P) the brain will say “He is dangerous, he is strong, he is an enemy, and he is very powerful, I must make sure I prepare for him to be the worst opponent” then the body does the things it needs to do to either fight it, or run like hell, making sure you prepare for worst means you either fight it with absolute efficiency, or run like you’ve never run before.

and such is the American news i find =P thinking of the worst of all, but sometimes, most times, these nightmare scenerio’s can lie, but survival is the key.

The arts in rome had the good old sport of Gladiators, and ofcourse all the other stuff that was a lot less violent.

I think these types of art will always be around, types that play on all different parts of life, but depending on the culture, some will make more of one then the other, depending on which is more important. Japan has a lot of arts to do with history, but also a lot of wonderful analogy stuff. America (all these generalisations though) has a lot of art to do with war, things going pretty bad and also a lot of romance quality loosely inspired by Europe, as they are quite in the spotlight all the time, and this can cause some pressure ofcourse i guess. Australian arts, also Finnish i think has a lot more about yarns, but, I’m an Aussie and love making a bit of anime fun

I think the change in culture arst has to do with the world, art is always observation of feelings and circumstances, usually manipulated a bit more by environment and things going on that are important to the artist.

As the world becomes more interconnected through this wonderful thing called internet, we see cultures becoming closer and closer, art types will change and improve.

I wouldnt worry too much about it, maybe in 500 years everyone will be like "Why is everyone making these damn lovey dovey peices or art! make some exciting action like the old crazy days of 2000!

Indeed… and getting it out of me and on a piece of paper makes me feel better. In that way, it’s not merely a mirror, but an extraction process.

Of course, whether that’s really art or self-gratifying therapy is really a discussion for another thread.

LohnC, I don´t see the “theme” of an art piece like a direct culture product. Maybe your culture gives you a style, but what you want to express does not depend on culture. That´s the “art evolution” I´m talking about.
I do not agree when you say there is same amounts between “suffering” art and “joy” art. If you discard renders for works (architectural, commercial, industrial deisng etc), I think there is more negative renders. Check the WIP forum, it´s all about the spaceship (with guns), the assault tank, the monster, the abandoned place…and it keeps going.

I understand your point of view you have, but we differ `cause I believe I have the CHOICE. Usually the world believe we are the sons of history and that we will be affected by what they teach us. I don´t.

Fweeb, Sometimes we do get out things with art, but I think I should solve that by myself. I do not “shit in front of others”, or al least I try to not. I prefer to give better of me to this world.

I don’t know about you guys, but i paint / model because thats what i feel like doing. I’m not doing it to impress anybody. If i want to draw a space machine man that has been done a thousand times before, i’ll still do it.

Most of my art is game-geared. Games are geared for conflict. People are geared for conflict.

I like giant death machines, machine guns and explosions. Not in real life of course, I am pretty close to pacifist. But I can draw a distinction between fantasy and reality.

If I want peace, tranquility, and beauty I can walk in the woods, (which I do often). But if I want to titilate my violent urges, my male competitive wiring, I need destruction. There are quite a few ways to do so, without causing harm.

I simply get “turned on” when I see japanese style giant-death robots. I can’t help it. I love Star Wars, and fantasy games. Dark evil demons and beautifully clad knights in shining armor.

But really, if you got through the WIP section, there is a lot of boring (to me) stuff in there… living rooms, people, soda cans, pixar like characters… there is lots of art around here that isn’t violent… but it ain’t my cup of tea. (allthough, I really am not keen on blood and gore… just explosions and laser guns)

Avier, this forum is a pretty poor sampling of all the varieties of art in the world. There are very beautiful painting and music and sculpture and writing and, yes, computer art of both “positive” and “negative” things (a subjective designation at best) in the world… and I’d say they’re in roughly equal numbers. That you notice more of one than another says more about you than the art, methinks.

LohnC’s pretty much on target, i think.

Art for the sake of beauty and joy is certainly a large and important part of society, but it is only a single aspect of what defines art. Art can also be ugly. Art can be gruesome. Anything that is visually or emotionally moving, or even slightly amusing is art, as long as its creative process is one of artistic intentions.

I should know. I live in a city that spends a considerable portion of its budget in erecting large sculptures, many of which are beyond my ability to enjoy, but they exist as art, and nothing else.

Joy, peace and harmony are certainly wonderful aspects of art, but to turn away from the other end of the spectrum would render us incapable of truly appreciating the good things in life. Without some recognition of what is evil, we cannot identify what is good.

I think a lot of the scary monster art out there is getting done by people looking for a job. The big story always has a good guy and a bad guy and to tell the story you have to be able to portray the antagonist as well as the protagonist in order to make the conflict believable.

Not all the artists are going to the nightmare because they live in their own personal hell. Art is a profession too.

I think that nobody gets the point.

Traitor, it´s ok if you paint/ model what comes out just because you feel to, but I like to CHOICE what comes out. Otherless I would feel like a repetitive machine doing a composition of all what i´ve seen in my day,

NeOmega, the best games I´ve played were non-conflict. Just because the business nowdays have mostly conflictive/destructive games does not means it should be like that, it´s just because it´s the easiest way to get players. Try to make a good adventure game, non-violent, that give positive things to you, and also, atracts lots of players. I think no company is ready to do it at great scale and quality. They even can´t dream about it, still now, they are blind.
I like mechas just like you. A few years ago I was thinking just like you.
Pixar-like characters are maybe boring to you, with no intention to offend, you are over exited with guns and lasers and you need that to get a feeling about things.

Remember Macross stories? they are plenty of action and destroy, but the main feeling of the film is over it, it´s about love and music, and they managed to give that feeling very well. That´s a good example of “evolutioned” art quality, they get the best of them no matters the scenario…they wanted to speak about love, for example.

Fweeb, I have the biggest latin-american art museum a few blocks from home. They publish anykind of latin american art. You see a good resumé of more than a half continent. Right know, the main piece is a bout the killing scenario of a Peron/Evita incident. It´s ok, very well done, and it´s part of history. But for me, it´s just that, part of history and I believe it does not define me at all. Get over it. Go over it. In the other corner of the museum, there is just liiiittle exposé of an artist called Xul Solar, and believe me, this guy was a GENIOUS. I do not like the aesthetic of his work, but it´s wonderfull anyway, he wanted to show so many things of life, and he did something new. And you know what, he lived at the begining of 1900. Nobody understood him, it was more important to follow the war, politic conflicts, atomic energy, and low quality “modern” art.
Nodays, people started to look a little more over things, and they re-
discovered him. But hey, at the museum it´s more important the past and violence rather than a guy who tried to look forward (and when nobody did), isn´t it?

And my question is, when people will realize that?
If you just try to look just a little over it…

I agree to a certain extent. I see a lot of ugliness in art. I’m not sure I would change it though because I feel I appreciate beautiful images more.

Also I think it’s hard to define beauty in art. Sometimes I consider some material that others would consider pornographic to be quite beautiful.

What you said about ugliness being easier is probably one reason why I’d say it’s more prevalent. To justify that opinion, if you consider a concept view of an ugly creature like an orc, you have a lot of freedom of expression because there is no real standard preconception of how it should look. On the other hand, if you try to model a beautiful woman, there are some very strict preconceptions IMO so it makes it more difficult.

I do feel that coverage of a wide range of subject matter is important in art however and I get tired of overly cutesy Disney-esque media. Grotesque images are often the ones that engage your emotions most powerfully and I like it when art does that, in fact it’s one the of the most important components of my personal definition of what it takes for something to be considered art. Now I don’t approve of shock-value media that is produced solely for that purpose but I still like powerful art even if it happens to be occasionally grotesque.

Can you give specific examples of art you approve of and art you disapprove of so we know exactly what you mean? Be careful if the images are offensive but here on Elysiun it seems only sexual images are considered pornographic so any level of violence is probably acceptable. I honestly feel it’s an example of double standards but that’s how society is so I guess it makes sense to comply - example: I was in a video store and I heard a mother acknowledge to her son who had to be around 9 years old that he had GTA: Vice City, an extremely violent 18-rated game. Now I bet the same mother (though that case isn’t the best example) would probably turn down getting him BMX XXX or playboy:the mansion, which actually feature very softcore sexuality.

That baffles me completely to be honest. Why condemn the most powerful way we possess as human beings to express love to each other and accept the most powerful way we express hatred? I was just reading recently that a gang of feral youths in the UK have killed a man in a random beating, rupturing his spleen and recording it on their mobile phone for a laugh. It breaks my heart to hear about things like that because I just despair when I see where society is going.

Of course, I can’t be sure that senseless violence is only developing in our society because I’m certain that there has been much worse barbarity in our history but that is another reason why I despise humanity. I just don’t understand it.

I think you understood me, osxrules…
What you wrote about the thin line between pornography and beauty is a good example of what I´m trying to talk about. Human body is a very beautiful creation and sexuality can express such positive things. But a lot of people look at it with they grotesque eyes, so it becomes pornography. It also depends on the material we are talking about, of course.
But anyway, again, it´s about what´s behind it!

Disney is not the best thing out there, every single movie they did is about suffering. They key to atract little people is to touch they hearts with suffering. Dumbo lost her mother. Bambi, similar. And it keeps going like that…
Have you seen any work of Ghibli? Chihiro…Mononoke…etc. In his films, there is adventures and also tragedies, but Ghibli has a wonderfull capacity to show something important behind that. When the film ends, there´s a message on you. That makes him a true genious. I consider him, an evolved artist.

I need to sleep, bye! hehe.

Now I am confused. Mononoke was quite violent, sad , gory, and dare I say mysoginist… even though I liked the movie, I’d say the slaughtering of those pigs was a good deal of suffering.

Stills can hardly have a story or moral, they are just there to invoke emotion.

Here’s a point this thread is missing.

Right now the increasing importance of the game industry is really stimulating demand for 3-D artists, and those artists are who interested in jobs are focusing themselves on what they see so often in games. It’s not ideal, but the subject matter of most high-profile 3-D games has been mostly the same for the past 15 years.

If I wanted to get a job doing modelling for a game studio, I’d have a much better chance and getting the job if I had a geared up space marine (or whatever) in my demo reel. It shows that I can offer them want they need. $ $ $.

aye, going to have to bail out of this one, too busy making art =P

I say, you are making art for one or many reasons, some include learning program, making someting oyu would just love to see/play around with/put in a still or aniamtion. Short films and stills are something you would love to see, so you make it, anything else is to learn more in technique, style or a program to do these things

so, i’m going to stay passive on this one, i love some destruction, i love love, i love a cool picture of some coffe cups and some suger at a cafe, if it was fun for the artist, and people get a feeling from it whichever was intended byu the artist, things are good! and then people learn more and then can make things that are origional, that are really inside their imagination.

Just thought id say that and bail =P bit cowardish of me, but I just cant find the time to catch up on all these great debate threads.

hope a conclusion is reached! but i doubt it :slight_smile:

Art is art

It can be a way to express yourself or just a hobby. I think that people should make their art be whatever they want it to be.

I’m not violent ( practically a pacifist really ) but the first thing I attempted to make with Blender was a sword and axe. If you are getting sick of violent art then don’t look at topics called ‘corpse being eaten by alien in an abondoned warehouse’ :wink:

I like all art equally. Destruction is unfortunately as much a part of human life as peace and life is art. Also, what good games don’t contain violence, Age of Empires, FF, quake and sonic do

Myst series, excellent games and I don’t recall much if any violence in any of the chapters I have played.

as long as we have suffering and sadness in world, we will have art about it. and I don’t agree at all, that making it is easy. sheesh.


what is Myst about?

I’m not sure anyone said it was easy. Just that it’s easier than making art beautiful. For some reason ugliness appears by itself but beauty you have to look for it. A lot of people don’t put in the extra effort.