osxrules we are talking on the same topic, the other -compadres- are discussing if ugly renders are art or not.
I agree that it is easier to make suffering-related art.
I disagree.
None of it is easy. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.
Well, let´s go to the facts.
The last 5 minutes between my 2 post, I looked in the forum for acceptable quality renders., and I picked those, no mather the theme of the work.
https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56640
https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56724
https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55275
https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56276
I discarded the cars, architectural, and disney-look characters. Make your conclusions.
And this is a nice example. This fela started with some darkish looking image, like a giant ant in a village, but then he changed everything and it tourned out to be quite nice. It´s the same basis, same objects, but a different focus.
https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56672
Again… 1) the negativity you’re inferring is subjective and 2) elysiun is not a strong candidate for diverse sampling.
subjective?
1)demon clown
2)bullets
3)unnatural, robotized women
4)guns and bullets.
5) (at last, a poetic render.)
Tell me, what´s the positive side on this examples?
If elysiun is not a good example, take a look al CG choice gallery.
For sure dark art
It’s a statement… makes you think. Very good image. You may have missed the point, or perhaps you are a big fan of anti-depressant drugs, and the huge television campaign trying to convince people they could be happier… I sure ain’t.
very subjective. Very very subjective you find this one as dark art. It is intriguing, and thought provoking, but I would hardly clal it dark. I do not fear a future of humanity merged into cyborg. We are well on the way with the number of replacement human parts there are already.
Again, this is hardly a dark art, it is a design for a weapon. A vast mjority of guns that are used are used to shoot targets, bottles, and old abandoned dishwashers at county dumps.
of course not dark
c’mon. people enjoy different things. this is not about what is easier and what is harder to do. for example people on cgtalk (cgchoice gallery) are many professional artists, they could do whatever they wanted. but something drives them on doing what they do. there is a reason for that. people are interested on different things.
I am mostly painting/drawing/rendering suffering, lonely, and sad characters… it doesn’t mean, I couldn’t put a smile on their face, and living in a beautiful, with a more traditional classical style. but I just really don’t see the point in that.
and about the bullets pills-picture… it is true, that it is far from positive, and that is exactly the point of the picture. as I said before (or did I?) we are not all living the happy easy life. but that picture is a whole scene, with a idea behind it. not just random thing.
I do agree that we see too much of pointless renderings here… test renderings, single objects with hdri, suzanne … etc… but if it’s a gun, or if it’s an apple… to me, it looks the same, I am always looking for a complete scenes, with a somesort of idea behind it.
anyways you have to understand the purpose of this forum, and that the community is wide range of people from all ages. so level may not always be as high as in cgtalk, but it has nothing to do with the subjects people choose.
hmm… this message seems to become very scattered… so I stop.
.b
This is more of dark art
When I was a kid I spent alot of time at my grandparents house. They always had a stack of paper for me to draw on. I would sit and draw guns, tanks, and army men. Grandpa would sit with me and draw pictures of old cars from his youth or funny pictures of me with birds in my hair (Grandpa had a great sense of humor). He would always comment about the guns, tanks, and army men. “Why don’t you draw something nice…a flower, a rainbow, or a kite?” I might draw one flower, then a battleship. Someday I may understand Grandpa’s wisdom. Maybe when I am a dad or a grandpa. 
All boys draw tanks, guns and tanks, girls draw flower, rainbow and unicorns. It’s just the nature of thing. But it doesn’t mean we imagine the blood, pain and suffering that can come from it :-?
Yes. Entirely.
I think NeOmega and basse covered it quite effectively. I may add that, taken at face value, the clown doesn’t seem demonic to me at all. A dirty fat man with clown make-up, yes… but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s evil.
Basse touched on this, but I would also like to point out that we’re talking about (or at least, I thought we were talking about) more than CG art here.
What it comes down to, for me, is this: making “dark art” is no easier than making “positive art”. Granted, more people may be inclined to think dark thoughts and, by extension, create darker work, but I think that says more about the mindset of the artist than a reflection of their skill. And even that is a stretch. I’m going to stop now, otherwise I’ll start on a conversation of psychology and cultural reflections.
Producing positive and negative thoughts and artwork are equally difficult.
The bullets in the pills isn’t meant to be dark, but a point the artist is trying to make. It has a message and that is people who do take anti depressant often commit suicide because of taking anti depressant.
If you instead look and think of what the artist is trying to tell you while instead of just thinking “hey a bullet, it must mean killing, chaos and suffering” then perhaps you will have a better understanding of what art is.
I don’t see nothing wrong with the cyborg, I think it’s quite beautiful. Inmortality in a peaceful setting.
When I talk about it being easy, I didn’t mean mainly in terms of technical ability. I meant in terms of artistic ability.
To take an analogy, consider Tracy Emin’s unmade bed (again). It is considered art by some because it is shocking and causes an ugly reaction. Imagine if she had presented a tidy bed. People would just say ‘meh’, and walk on by. Getting a reaction of awe from something beautiful is harder than from something that shocks. It’s why a lot of modern art goes for the shock-value alone because it’s just easier to get a reaction that way.
When people react with confusion, anger, disgust or any negative emotion, they tend to justify the art because of the artistic context, which again makes the artist’s job easier because they don’t have to justify it themselves. An example is the justifications given for the examples of dark art given in this thread. The artist doesn’t need to come up with a meaning to their piece because when it’s dark, people can associate with the darkness in themselves and find a meaning. As Basse correctly pointed out:
we are not all living the happy easy life
I would go further to say that most of us are leading pretty crappy, pointless lives. But that’s why we all find such common ground in the dark art.
Now Basse made an interesting statement about not seeing the point in making more beautiful images and in many ways I would agree. If comedians told stories that didn’t relate to our lives then they wouldn’t be as funny. If art doesn’t relate to us as individuals then it loses its power. Perhaps rather than changing the art, we need to change what it’s reflecting instead. One question is whether changing the art would help to do that. After all, a lot of people blame destructive media for the way people are today, although I don’t think anyone would deny that the relationship works both ways.
So, basically you’re saying that it’s easier to engage you audience with darker work than with (and I’d prefer a different term, but can’t think of a better one) beautiful work, right? I see where you’re coming from, although I’m not inclined to agree entirely*. But even if I did, don’t you think that says more about the audience than the artist?
*It could just be that I’m stubborn
Someone touched upon the psychology…
and that sparked some synapsis.
I am a dark person. I am highly inteligent, and to me, if I could find the people, I would love to go out every Wednesday night for cofee and talk global politics and other deep shit.
But all my friends, and indeed my girlfriends friends, are quite different. It has led to some minor clashes between her and I. I know there are many people around who think dark, and are generally dark people. It can also be surmised that these people are much more introverted.
Alot of non-internet art, is bright and cheery… most popular music, a wide variety of movies and television shows, many paintings, etc… these are many times made by people living more blissful, (but dare I say ignorant) lives.
I know I am not unique, however. I know there are millions of people like me. Mostly because I meet so many of them on the internet. I think this may explain, at least for CG, why art does tend to fall to the darker side, (but not by much).
My opinion on beauty, peace, etc vs violence, conflict, and darkness is this; one or the other is not necesserily bad by nature (it takes a person to make it this way), but it can probably be said that it’s important to have an equal balance of both… artistically speaking, that is.
That’s all. <.<
I hope this is no way related to Goth culture. Because believe or not, government had the balls to teach the danger of goth in public schools.
Al Capone wrote:
government had the balls to teach the danger of goth in public schools.
What do you mean? I’m not a goth, but near as damn it and I appreciate all good art despite leaning towards the dark side. Art is a good outlet for that side of peoples personality, you can actually make a point through it. Kinda hard to do that with unicorns and rainbows 
you misspelled intelligent.
you misspelled intelligent.[/quote]
kinda funny. good speller too if it is required to make a point.