Spotted this over at CGChannel : Autodesk to raise cost of upgrades for its software
Welcome new Blender users !
Spotted this over at CGChannel : Autodesk to raise cost of upgrades for its software
Welcome new Blender users !
Based on all of what I’ve read here in previous years, I’d advise to not put all your eggs in one basket in terms of seeing a flood of new users.
Sure, there’s always the chance that some might give Blender a shot, but we’re far from the only alternative to Autodesk software. (Lightwave, Modo, Houdini, and C4D for starters).
Also, I wouldn’t use this thread to discuss the topic of Blender vs. the commercial solutions, we already have a thread a few rows down about improving Blender that covers part of that.
Quite a few of my associates are getting into Modo. Its priced better and they feel comfortable with it being now owned by The Foundry. Other’s who use autodesk products often stick with older versions anyway. It is said that 3DS Max 2009 is the best most stable version of the software, which is why we see a lot of newer plug ins still offer support back to 2009. Personally I hate, or rather avoid upgrading every year when it comes to autodesk. If the software works for you now in every way, and you have customized it appropriately, why update? Most AD updates are buggy as hell anyways.
People will almost all go to other solutions (the ones you mentioned) but surely this action will encourage all commercial firms not to be so “restrained” on the cost side (e.g. Modo is already somewhat more expensive than what it was before The Foundry). Today, the only commercial comprehensive 3D solution below 1000$ is Carrara, everything else commands more. All summed, in the medium long term it is a “good” trend for Blender.
I’m curious, what is the price of Modo now and what have you heard on near-term trends?
So basically, you’ll have small studios either having the choice of being part of the DAZ community (where there’s a heavy presence of people using mesh and creature presets and digital dolls), or moving everything over to Blender. I would guess that unless you consider yourself part of the digital doll / preset-building / hobbyist / weird affiliation crowd, the choice might be more or less obvious.
Cinema 4d’s prime version is actually just below $1000 us dollars. $995.
Modo is the same. Yes over time its gone up in price after updates, but the price point is still the same after the Foundry acquired luxology. In fact after that they had it on sale for $700 for a limited time. Its now back up to the normal $1200ish price point. There is a lot of speculation that modo will take on foundry level prices, but at this point its just theories and rumors. PR from them says they have no plans to jack up the price unless new updates warrant the cost, and I dont think they would do so easily since their current user base is pretty adamant about having the mid price range.
Lightwave is slightly more, priced at $1,495. From what I saw at Siggraph, they are making some serious improvements despite the disaster they had a while back with management. People still have issues getting comfortable with their work flow, which has modeling in one mode and the rest in another.
All those are still priced significantly lower than the Autodesk pricing scheme and there are more jobs to be had using such applications. Out of all of them, C4D is probably the most comfortable work flow with Modo being the most powerful perhaps, and next gen if you will. Modo and lightwave are tied to the same engineers though. Ex lightwave peeps went on to create modo in other words.
Another think Autodesk is thinking of doing, which will hurt them is requiring their software be online and saved files go on their servers…or some odd proposal. I think the idea is that they can try and control their user base more and squeeze more out of them. I cant wait for AD to lose its place because the corporation side of it is just anti-user in every sense of the word. A shame too because max, maya and xsi are great apps.
I don’t have any eggs.
some will look for alternatives
Some will try Blender.
Some will like it.
Some will stay with it.
We should welcome them.
Seems like you are hoping for something and or confirming a bias.
Question, if they already have a license for an autodesk product and are not interested in upgrading…why would they move to Blender when they still have a perfectly working copy of the said product (regardless of version number)? Thats what you are overlooking. Again I know many who still use 3DS Max 2009 because they believe its the best version number. Upgrades dont necessarily mean better capability or the desire to upgrade.
SaintHaven: Now I do know that there are some versions of some apps. that withstand the test of time quite well, but with software and techniques constantly advancing, there would sooner or later be a time where the best choice for productivity is to get a new version of either the same software or a different one.
Right now in 2012, it’s not totally unheard of for people to be using 10-year old software providing that it was an outstanding version for its time, but how many people would one expect to stick with that same version, with no anticipation for feature updates, in 2020 or 2030? Now I use an old version of Paint Shop Pro myself and have used Mapzone (which has had no development since 2008), but I have since decided to move my texture-creation to the actively developed Genetica software and am considering to someday perhaps get Photoline, project Dogwaffle, or any other project that’s proving to be a potential alternative to Photoshop.
Heck, we recently threw out most of our old Win95/Win98 software because they no longer work on Windows 7. There’s going to be a day where Microsoft throws out some compatibility code related to keeping WinXP apps. running and force a decision on Max9 users.
It doesn’t surprise me for a moment increasing the cost of an upgrade. It makes the maintenance package option more attractive which is what I think there after. I should imagine a lot of studios have been hanging onto older versions and not upgrading due to cashflow issues and by increasing upgrade costs it will eventually make it more cost efficient to buy a subscription. It is the Autodesk and Adobe business model.
I think gone are the days where commercial packages used to get a real meaty update every 18 months with real new features and improvements. You now get drip fed minor updates and bug fixes. Adobe are the biggest culprits in my book.
Ahhh the joys of being freelance where your clients don’t care what you use to create the project only that it looks good and is done on time…
Not long ago, Modo was 895$, now it is 1195$, but I think this increase is mainly due to the process of aligning it to the rest of The Foundry products price tags. Without doubt, future versions will add more functionalities and raise the price tag.
I predict that Autodesk move will entice all other software houses to raise prices accordingly.
@Ace Dragon: DAZ is the worst firm you could imagine for software, just see the gut wrenching way they left Bryce and Hexagon rot and die away. Carrara has also been left unattended and now it lags seriously behind, so behind that I doubt that the effort required to bring it up to date are worth the financial returns. In the past I vocally suggested adding scripting to it (and may try merge Hex into it as a badass modeling room) and all I got was being banned from DAZ forums.
The very existence of Blender prevents anybody from even thinking creating a below-1000$ 3D application (there would be no market for it) and so…
…welcome to Blender de-facto monopoly in the low-end 3D market.
The funny stuff is, most will not care.
You seem to forget that most Studios which use Autodesk have their pipeline built around those tools, and often enough have developed in-house tools to meet their demands and seamlessly integrate.
Build a new pipeline? Buy new licenses of another software? Overhaul your in-house tools and/or recreate scripts?
Autodesk will have to increase the pricetag a lot more before people’ll rampage.
No one even tried. Current big software is aimed for professionals who actually make money with 3D. DAW manufacturers have realized the market in hobbyist music makers and they have good options in lower price ranges plus even pro versions are possible (I spent 350 euros in my pro version DAW).
I’m just saying, someone create a 3D software in 300-500 price range that beats Blender (not hard to do), is not some crippled student version and you have a winning software there. It could even be some kind of light version without some main features (like animation) and it would still sell like bread.
Actually, a lot of people Do care, as I am reading on the various Autodesk-centric forums.
Many view it as the first step towards forced software subscriptions for lacklustre updates.
Here’s a quote:
“Subscription has been a great way to get customers to pay Autodesk to be beta testers. 2012-2013 was our last year on subscription, see you in 6 years (or more likely never) ADSK.”
No one is heralding a rampage. No one is “confirming a bias”.
Dissatisfied customers tend to wander.
It is not outside the realm of possibility that there would be a new Blender user or two.
I am sure some do care, and often have something to complain about. People always have something to complain about on a forum. Heck, people complain about Blender even though its free for them to use on this very forum. The thing is, pulling some random comment from some forum somewhere as an indicator that this price change is having some impact which can help blender is kind of well…more based on pro-blender hope than anything else.
Regarding the confirmation bias, yes thats kind of what you were doing. It’s ok, everyone does it to varying degrees. The premise was that people will flock to blender because autodesk did something very consistent with their previous actions. The bias was pro blender in interpretation, without regard to the numerous other highly competitive software applications out there, nor did consider the fact that users just dont have to upgrade. I mean, they already have a license for it, so its not necessarily a forced upgrade.
You want attribution and footnotes?
Who the hell said that? I didn’t say this is great for Blender , or help Blender, or anything of the sort. I said we’ll be seeing some new users. I then went on the to qualify that “It is not outside the realm of possibility that there would be a new Blender user or two” because of said price increase.
I am boggled as to where the adamant contrary stance derives. I think you just like the sound our your own self arguing.
Learn to read and stop putting words in my mouth.
Confirming a bias? So there existed a supposition that I was biased? [ in what way I have no idea] and have confirmed it by saying that we should welcome new Blender users? [And that was the EXTENT of what I said]
While your learning to read, take the time to learn what the words mean as well.
Thats exactly what Softimage used to to with XSI. Up to version 7 there was a Foundation version for about £350 and it was the nuts quite frankly. It was very well featured and rock solid, in fact a little too good i think as Softimage dropped the foundation version and prices rocketed to over £1400.
Now dont you think you are getting a bit personal and aggressive? Relax, its just a discussion. If you want to provide sources and links, go for it, especially if it helps make your point. Furthermore if your saying there really wasnt a point other than more blender users as a result of AD upgrade cost going up, then I dont know what else to tell you other than ask why make a thread about it? What exactly are people supposed to comment on? Just respond with “yay” or confirm what you believe? If so at that point doesnt that go right back to the confirmation bias at play?
I know about the words I use (and the ability to “read”) though why you would attempt to use them as a reason for…i suppose counter argument, seems to connote a far reaching desire to either belittle me as a commenter or invalidate my opinion. Either way, I think its more productive to avoid such chest thumping maneuvers, but if you feel its necessary to prove your point…feel free to do so.
Also feel free to point out what words I specifically put into your mouth…I am curious as to what they are.
Yes, the digs were uncalled for. I have a condition known as ‘uppityness’ whenever I am categorically dismissed as being ‘biased’.