Beginner's Forum

i think we really need one, and i don’t mean to be harsh, but the forum’s are clogged with a lot of people who do not know very much about blender. This will always happen with opensource software, but it can be seperated. People who might go in this forum are the ones who have obviously simple work, people who create a whole bunch of primitives and move them into vague shapes and call it done. Other’s like those who basically are just doing tests, but call it finished because it has some cheapo materials and is rendered with the generic settings.
i realize blender canno
t be held to the same standards as professional software, and that if we want to become popular, we have to nurture our newcomers, but we should have some standards, and our newcomers have to know that, they are not as good as some of these people who have devoted a lot of time to exercising their skills , and getting good, we have to let them know they have to work at it. A beginner’s forum would make a reward, when they get better, they can start posting in the regular forum. I think it was a good decision to make a “best of” forum, but you have to realize, most people are not there yet, and use it as a hobby program, so you have to have support on the other end.
Anyways, that’s my two cents, and don’t ask me about my work because you think i’m lame and have no right to complain, I am not the best nor the worst, to be truthful, i don’t use blender that much, but i do like the community. This topic is not about me, it is about the idea. And stay on topic, all these type of threads about being a little less congratualatory to newcomers turn into some type of flame war, and i don’t want that to happen, i realize both sides, and have still come to this conclusion.

the forum’s are clogged with a lot of people who do not know very much about blender. This will always happen with opensource software, but it can be seperated.

Seems to me the whole point of support forums is to put people who don’t know things in contact with people who do know things.

If I have a question about something, I post my question. If I feel like being a nice guy and answering some questions, I look for some unanswered questions and answer them if I can, regardless of how simple they are. Having newbies (or anybody else who lacks talent or skills) around doesn’t stand in the way of me doing that, does it?

I don’t see a problem. On the contrary, I’m glad to know that there are constant influxes of new users to Blender. A lot of them are pretty young too, and this forum is where they’re going to pick up a lot of what they know about online etiquette, so they should be exposed to (and, if necessary, occasionally scolded by) more experienced posters.

i don’t mean to put newcomers out of the loop, i love responding to them, in fact, almost all of my posts have been critiques. i think it would be nice to have some seperation in between tiers though, the newcomers would have their own community of their art, and long time members could help them, right now, i feel that people aren’t pushing these kids enough, even long time members are congratulating fairly simple pieces, a beginners forum could help them if they want to relly learn and have fun with blender.

…right now, i feel that people aren’t pushing these kids enough…

Segregating them from the group won’t help this. It will make it worse, IMO.

i have kind of thought of that, and it is true, most members would rather look through one place, maybe what i’m asking for is is for people to be more critical mainly, i come from concept art, and the people there are a lot less congratulatory even on pieces that are far better than average.

if you really feel a need for a dedicated space to welcome newcomers and help them get up to speed with blender, i encourage you to forward this good idea to the moderators and get some nice people to help you out because there will be lots of threads with hungry beginners to feed !!!..

but on the other hand, if you just want to ‘clean’ the forums to appeal better to professionnals, let me strongly disagree… don’t create an ‘apartheid zone’ for the people you judge as underskilled.

everyone started from scratch and needs every now and then a bit of guidance or a reality check to build up their artistic and technical skills. this refinement process is best carried out in a central place where you can witness different levels of skills…

what i find great about Blender is this strong friendly community around it : open source software supported by (mostly) open minded people …

i’ve learned so much here the last few months thanks to everyone’s posts that i don’t have time to waste with commercials and industry blablah at cg elitists forums …

keep it up, that’s what makes Blender so valuable to me !
just my .02$ though

As far as I’m concerned, there’s really only one solution here. Lead by example. Be critical. Make critiques. Granted, you need to have tact when you do such things, as I’m sure you’re aware, with your background. Many people have a difficult time expressing their thoughts on a particular piece of work in an eloquent and constructive manner. That problem exists less here than many other places, but it’s still an issue. Show people how it’s done. If it’s a style of commentary that a lot of people favor and respect, then more people will use it. Show everyone how it’s done.

as someone who’s rapidly going from total noob to…um…a more advanced total noob, I think there’s a middle ground to find here. Look at it this way: why not create a forum where new-comers could be totally comfortable asking really basic questions? Not so much to “weed out’ but to give some breathing room to folks who see the fantastic work of the gurus and might feel a little too intimidated in the regular forums to ask why his/her “gus” won’t move right. It might start with a FAQ that can be updated with the most common beginners’ questions, and a strong admonition to use the search function before posting. (This already exists, in lots of other forums, but a new-comer might be well served by looking in one place first. Sort of a “New? Look HERE first…” thing.) SO…go to it, yama! The new 'beginners” forum needs your attention!:slight_smile:

I do take issue with one thing you said: Blender artists can and should be “held to the same standards” as the users of other CG programs, if they choose to be critiqued with high standards. Take a look at issue 80 of 3D World.

Be critical. Make critiques. Granted, you need to have tact when you do such things, as I’m sure you’re aware, with your background.

Hear hear. Totally agree.

Not so much to "weed out’ but to give some breathing room to folks who see the fantastic work of the gurus and might feel a little too intimidated in the regular forums to ask why his/her “gus” won’t move right. It might start with a FAQ that can be updated with the most common beginners’ questions, and a strong admonition to use the search function before posting. (This already exists, in lots of other forums, but a new-comer might be well served by looking in one place first. Sort of a “New? Look HERE first…” thing.)

I think there are already plenty of stickies and FAQs for this. And newbies usually find that their basic, frequently asked questions are almost always answered politely, with a gentle suggestion to search first next time or a pointer to documentation. And from what I’ve seen, they learn pretty fast.

As for artistic standards, by all means give serious criticism. There is a forum in here already called Focused Criticism or something like that (separate from WIP) which is the appropriate place to do this. If you see renders of shiny spheres in there, I think it’s fine to tell them it’s not appropriate to post that stuff there.