This is not the big question. The big question is, how we can organize a stabile organization around any technology? If we have no organization around this, if we have no “telephone number” for the community, than it is not working! If we have no organization around this technology, if we don’t have a “phone number” for the community, it won’t work. Then the development is not stable and, above all, the engagements will not survive long (see UPBGE).
I think it’s more a matter of the lot of us never touching the source, and then for those that do it’s just too much work for absolutely no pay; it tires them out. A single developer who lives off of maintaining the engine can work, but a whole team doing it for free tends to stagnate, no matter how passionate and coordinated.
As for everyone who’s lost faith in the engine I can make do without your shit. xoxo
Liebranca; I seriously hope your not suggesting that people who used the BGE (but since switched) should be regarded as traitors who are to be slandered and treated as if they never used the engine or made anything with it.
A lot of potential Ketsji users will avoid it like the plague if they find the community with a “you better not leave and say why or else” mentality. The thing to do if users are moving to other engines would be to identify the major pitfalls they ran into and see if it’s something on the engine level that needs developer attention.
No you silly, I meant if you’re not going to help develop the engine, work with it or provide support to new users like me then you’re why should I mind if you leave? If all someone’s gonna do is talk smack then as far as I’m concerned they’re just dead weight.
You don’t see me over at Godot support boards telling everyone to fukk off and accept their engine can’t get into the third dimension and that the devs ought to heed my advice or their project will surely fail.
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Ha-ha-ha! The blender 2.8 has turned out castrated.
I think this could be very close to reality.
Yes and no. If look also to the source code. AND there is nothing too. The BGE and UPBGE is very old and outdated. That is why I am proposing that the BGE/UPBGE be transferred to new software in a new organisation. I’m just analyzing other engines and comparing them roughly in their functions. Example: Unity and Unreal are both free for small projects (others too, but they have the same problems like Blender Foundation). But they offer considerably more comfort and performance than ever the BGE or UPBGE had. So why should I use the BGE. Why should I use old software, for example, which gives me no support for multy devices or VR. There’s only one reason: nostalgia.
Enough chatter: Are you work with others together to start a new foundation? That is concrete action. Mast you with? I look forward to your email.
Who are we? How many programmers and under what conditions?
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The software is good, stable, and open source to boot – that’s why people choose to work with it and that’s why people choose to contribute to it’s development.
If it can’t do what you want it to do, it’s not because the software is bad: you’re just looking for a different kind of program.
I suggest you quit making a fool of yourself here and go look elsewhere for the tools you need.
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I’ve been using blender for over 10 years. I can only say she’s good. No, she’s very good. And that’s exactly why I find it so frustrating that the BGE is out. I fight for the BGE and the UPBGE that they have a future. That’s my creed.
In order to prevent misunderstandings, I would like to explain briefly what my goal is!
My goal is the continuation of the BGE/UPBGE in collaboration with Blender (two shoulders are wider than one) and the community, so that a future perspective for a realtime engine with a strong function for the use of libraries (building blocks for numerous use cases such as games, architecture, Mechanical engineering, energy, etc.), logic processes, virtual reality, and other important future features is possible. What is necessary?
- One needs a modern and democratic framework in which an open source development is possible. In addition, I propose a foundation according to German law. This legal basis also provides the opportunity to make money available for development (without money, no stable development ist possible. Blender Foundation has the same concept and has money also). It is also clearly defined in this context that the Members have the say. So you!
- To know where you stand, you have to know what the others are doing and how strong they are. That is why I have summarized and made available the capabilities of the most well-known program. This gives an orientation where you have to go.
- As with the development of the UPBGE, we could see that the order of development was not very stable. This means that developers first found themselves to develop the software. This should create an organization, but that didn’t work. I suggest that we now first establish a stable organisation, that is, to set the framework solidly. In this context, developers can then contribute their strength, ability and creativity. For the developers, it is then clear through the framework how they participate in the development. That gives security.
- How can we achieve the goal? To be able to establish a club/foundation, a minimum of persons must be available. In my opinion a minimum of 50 to 100 persons is necessary in order to be able to make a stable foundation. The more the better. The target is, that we have 500 members over the next time.
Process: Anyone who wants to support this development will have a strong influence on development in the future. To do this, a person must commit to becoming a member in the first step. After a recording period, it is checked whether there are enough members for a foundation. If not, all letter of intent for membership expires. No money has flown, there are no obligations, nothing. The process is simply terminated. If there are enough members, the founding procedure is started. The Articles of association are then passed with the associated members and the application for the foundation is made. The association bodies are established (Advisory Board, Board, etc.). The foundation accounts are opened at a bank. The association is officially registered. Then pay the members who have committed themselves in advance to their small contributions to the account and the new club can begin to work.
Anyone who wants to participate in this process will send me his letter of intent for the new foundation by e-mail. This is then confirmed. Only then is a binding membership to the Association agreed.
PS: A cross membership with Blender would be an interesting and beautiful destination.
Peter
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Hanzo; So you weren’t thrilled with Ton’s oversight when they were working on Yo Frankie!, but is it really a productive thing to hold a grudge for all of these years (with a vow of it not ending until his life is destroyed)?
Also, if everyone sued their boss because of some unflattering thing they did or say, the court system would be clogged up to the point where there’s no time to dispense actual justice. I would also not forget that the lawsuit approach to try to a “settle a score” actually plays into the stereotype that people around the world place on Americans (so please try to settle things with Ton in a more peaceful and civil manner if possible).
EDIT; I just decided to see who gave the hidden post likes and accidentally gave it one myself 
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Just click it again to ‘unlike’ it again.
Tried left-clicking the heart, does not seem to working on my end no matter how many clicks I give it (Google Chrome) 
I think it’s time for BGE to become a separate engine but uses the full capacity of Blender 2.8x and above, just because it’s GPL-ed and it can be modified or used however we want.
Let’s make BGE(or whatever the new name) what Ton couldn’t.
I think it is not necessary for Hanzo to sue Ton, just beat him on his own game…you get it!?..“his own game…engine” 
P.S.I think Indiegogo or Kickstarter campaign, but serious and professionally made can be VERY successful according to numbers of users of BGE. What Ton made almost 20 years ago can be done again, but just for BGE.
Ketsji is not the right name, it should be named BGE. Just marketing word…people will believe a good old BGE title a lot more, than a new and strange sounding one.
I will contribute gladly visuals and web design for that kind of campaign.
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Agreed, it should keep the name BGE, I also find ketsji not right.
People have been waiting for work on the BGE forever, substantial donations were made for its development.
None of us asked for the interactive mode, slated for inclusion in 2020(really?!), with a design document a gradeschool kid could have written.
There are dozens of BGE critics praising its deletion yet hundreds, maybe thousands of BGE users left in the dark.
When BF said they had to remove it because of the substantial work required to keep it compatible, what they are really saying is they are unwilling to do the bare minimum to maintain it.
Keep in mind many BGE users are also programmers by nature, I think BF pulled a thread on this one that they shouldn’t have.
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The final design document is yet to be written. This can be verified with the fact that the Code Quest brought in a ton of details about various 2.8 systems that were previously unknown.
It’s just an overview right now, the main point is that it will feel like a true part of Blender, sharing its functionality instead of being tacked on and doing its own thing. We do not know much more than that other than a decent likelyhood of allowing users to publish what gets made.
Yeah, but why wait?!
If BF is working actively on interactive mode they should of shown some results until now.
UPBGE was and is a great example, that community can handle the BGE development without BF sniffing and lurking around, only delaying the progress.
Ton will develop Blender and we will develop BGE on top of his efforts…seems like better than suing 
Actually, Armory/BDX even Godot partially…is doing the same thing, just the wrong way.
UPBGE was doing it right, except the marketing and kickstarter campaign. They were hoping for BF to approve their branch and make it official…naively. When there are money involved, nothing is what it seems to be.
We can manage the BGE development without BF perfectly fine. Interactive mode will be in control of BF and as we already saw…they are no longer reliable.
We can start with BGE and if it succeed we can further develop Blender without BF on the way…after all it is our software, not theirs!
P.S. It is just a reminder to those who may concern…Blender is not propriety of Tons’ or BF and if they do not comply with our concerns, it is perfectly fine to start a new foundation and develop Blender and BGE in a direction that fits the community needs better.
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