Bitcoin and Blender

The spirit of these two technologies go hand in hand.

Is there a way Blender can benefit from Bitcoin?

Can we donate to an address? Maybe just put the address on blender.org?

BTC/LTC/DOGE?

What do you think, should BF catch up on crypto-currencies to boost up development?

It might seem like a good idea at first, but considering that there’s been some major Bitcoin thefts lately (supposedly responsible for all of the money in Mt. Gox disappearing), no one can guarantee that the BF’s virtual wallet is going to stay full of coins.

Then you have the risk that the BF gets enough Bitcoins to pay for a dozen developers and all of a sudden the unstable currency crashes, and who knows where Bitcoin is going to go as long as there’s no official regulator, no official entity backing it up with something of value, and no one even knowing who created it.

Blender Foundation can receive Bitcoin donations made using the following address:

17orEh51ab8HoU7g8Ezwcp76jCpeL7PabJ

CG Cookie shop also accepts bitcoin.

You would think they’d not let it sit in a bitcoin wallet but instead trade it for some fiat currency (which is also not backed by something of value) before making some grand scheme to use the money.

As to the value of bitcoins, I was bored the other day and did a quick calculation which suggests that the ‘stable’ price is pretty much right at the cost of production (hardware cost+electricity+some unknown time domain) so unless people dump their bitcoins en masse and quit producing new ones it will always stabilize at the current rate of production. If it goes below this level people will turn off their mining rigs (and hold on to the bitcoins they currently own) and if it goes over new people will invest in production. Hmmm, almost precisely how the pricing system works absent an ‘official regulator’.

Not that this is the right place to discuss value theory or anything like that…

Some valid points. I agree, BTC should be converted to $ immediately or actually used for
what it is - a currency. I bet there are also developers willing to work and receive payments in BTC.
Since sending moneythrough bitcoin is simple and completely transparent, it could prove a valuable asset in funding of Blender.
More donations, more resources, better Blender! It would be nice to see Project Gooseberry to also include crypto donations…

There are few misinterpreted facts about Bitcoin presented here.
I’m here to clarify.

  1. Bitcoin the protocol (Bitcoin with capital B) and the money (bitcoin with lower case b) is a big experiment, high risk, but still lower than central banks (by multiple factors).
  2. To lower the risk, convert BTC to fiat when received. Use Coinbase or Bitpay, they pay fiat daily.
  3. Bitcoin can be stored in Hot and Cold wallets.
  • Hot wallet: Wallet with private key connected to network
  • Cold wallet: Wallet without private key connected to network, can be a pc not connected to the internet, a piece of paper, woodcarving, physical coins etc
  1. Mt. Gox case (and other hacking case, including exchanges) is known risk when you trust others with your bitcoin.
  2. So far, there is very little known cases of hacked wallet on original Bitcoin-Qt wallet if well protected. For ultimate protection (on hot wallet), use Armory. It has multi-signature transaction (more than 1 person to sign transaction to transfer bitcoin). It has many more accounting features too.
  3. Bitcoin network is protected by hashrate of more than 100x of all supercomputer combined.

I know few developers who are accepting bitcoin. More will come.

Bitcoin is a scam. A very cleverly designed scam, but a scam nevertheless. It’s a very intriguing cryptographic technology with a lot of potential applications, but “currency” is not one of them.

The scam is based on two fundamental mis-conceptions about the role of currency. The truth of these two notions is as follows:

  • There is no “intrinsic value” in a unit of currency. Currency is a unit of exchange, and it cannot be “rare” or “in short supply.”
  • There is no “extrinsic value” in the fact that you are able to calculate a hard-to-calculate number.

Bitcoin is a barter-exchange unit that is (allegedly …) hard to come by, but the principal purpose of the scam is to drive demand for “the ability to calculate the units.” Which might cost you $30,000 for a computer that would cost $750 a month in electrical power. (Notice, please, that you cannot purchase these devices with bitcoin. Heh.)

One day, the cryptographic ideas that are embodied in Bitcoin might greatly add to the security of, say, credit cards. But bitcoin itself, in all of its manifestations, is simply designed to part you with your real currency.

Oddly enough, it’s the people who consider themselves to be “smarter than the average bear” who turn out to be the most easily suckered by a good con-artist. They think themselves into the trap, and, since they always consider whatever they’ve convinced themselves of to be "a much more brilliant realization than the ‘common folk’ would ever have [been able to] come up with, they also serve as excellent proselytes for drawing more people into the same scam.

Don’t be one. Just sit back and wait for the headlines to finally appear. They already know who the guy really is; have pretty much always known, just now came out with it. The list of fraudulent claims is already growing, although the indictments have not yet all been filed. The scam is already well on its way to fully unwinding.

Some might argue that the intrinsic value of Bitcoin is:

-it’s transparency/anonimity (whatever you choose to be to both extremes - you can either be completely anonymous or completely transparent in your transactions)
-fast and free transfer of value throughout the world
-free banking system for everyone who has internet
-it is decentralized (peer to peer)
-can’t be manipulated (public ledger of the history of every transaction ever made is available to everyone)

The currency which is never rare or in short supply is always deflating in value. What exactly is the trap you are talking about? Buying a whole lot of BTC with your life savings and child’s college fund? I really don’t understand, please elaborate further so I can avoid it? :slight_smile: But if that means just to stop using Bitcoin, well I guess that wouldn’t work, there are just too many benefits right now for me to stop using it (being paid with it for my services for example, without leaving Paypal hundreds of dollars. I immediately convert to fiat, sure).

You can also buy mining rigs with bitcoin, where did you heard that is not so, sundialsvc4? Please take a look at the websites selling these things. You can buy pretty much everything with BTC nowadays, from a car and a house to a dentist service. It would also be advisable to read the bitcoin white paper (https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf) which explains some concepts about the tech. And it is not really the ability of ‘calculating the units’ as you state, but rather the ability to send value. ‘Calculated units’ are only implemented to keep the incentive for miners to leave their rigs on. The gist is the protocol itself, not the calculations made or the ‘ability’ to make those calcs. The network is making those calculations to process the transactions.

But yeah, it seems that anyone who has made up its made about Bitcoin being a scam or a ponzi scheme or whatever
(I think people have been saying that, for how much, four or five years now?), can never be convinced in the opposite regardless of anything, so I am not even going try. But I don’t really care that much, because advocacy of bitcoin is not really the point of this thread, the point is to enable Blender Foundation to get more money, bitcoin is just means to an end. I use it and find it incredibly handy and useful, have bought some hardware with it, being paid for my work with it, donated some to good causes, sent some to family and friends. It’s frictionless and fast, and it cuts the banks and Paypal out of the equation, which is good.

And it really doesn’t matter who is behind it, what is your line of reasoning for thinking so? The protocol is open source. However, I’m still interested -> please provide some links or sources to your claims! (if you think Newsweek is a credible source of anything whatsoever, then just don’t bother please :), if you talk about the alleged discovery of the creator, because the whole thing is bizare, ridiculous and an exercise in bad taste).

I’d just add that, oddly enough, those who evidently know nothing about bitcoin or are riddled with misconeptions about it, are the ones who have most advice to offer on how to operate with the very said thing. Things you stated in your post are almost all wrong:

  • there is intrinsic value
  • it is not hard to come by
  • it is hard to imagine peer to peer network supporting banks and corporations
  • you can buy bitcoin rigs with bitcoin
  • they may or may not know who the guy is (again, source?) but it really doesn’t matter
  • what fraudulent claims? who will they convict? bitcoin is peer to peer, you can’t just shut it down and there is no ‘boss’ of bitcoin (see: Bittorrent)

The smarter-than-the-average-bear bit is very condescending (banal even?) and might be a bit insulting for some,
so I’ll not comment too much on it. Basically you are saying BTC users are stupid, because they think they are smarter, but is really you who is the smartest here, because your smarts have enabled you to see this as a scam (despite you not offering a single valid argument why this is so). I’ll just say I never thought of myself of being smarter or of others as ‘common folk’ when i decided to buy some BTC. Something like that never even crossed my mind. I just thought it was useful and it proved it was. That is all.

-fast and free transfer of value throughout the world

It’s actually slower than Paypal etc., a transaction is considered confirmed after ~10 minutes, whereas it is instantly with paypal.

BTC transfers are not necessarily free: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

True! My, bad I guess I should elaborate in more detail: the transaction fees are minute and mostly only a couple of cents or less, even for larger amounts (1k+). And you cannot ‘cancel’ the transaction after, like you can with Paypal. Whereas one could compare transaction times with international bank transfers, where it usually takes a couple of days for the money to transfer across the globe.

TL;DR:

All the myth about cryptocurrencies >> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

Compare payment methods >> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Payment_methods

the blender foundation should start its own cryptocurrency. blendcoin. but instead of doing useless powerwasting calculations the miners have to do cycles renders for the community. :slight_smile:

Brilliant! :smiley:

Yes, this is a great concept. Sheepit renderfarm has something like this -> you get credits for contributing
your computing power to the farm. These credits can then be used for your projects to be rendered on the farm,
which means that more credits you have, the higher you are on the priority list.

That’s called “barter,” and it’s a great idea: you’re contributing computing-power to a shared pool so that you can draw back more-or-less power from the same pool at some later date. This is firmly attached to an independent thing-of-value for which you barter and trade. The tokens by which you might denominate that trade are irrelevant and, apart from that trade and the external motivations to engage in it, valueless.


My earlier use of the phrase, “intrinsic / extrinsic value” might be misunderstood. A unit-of-currency might be a dollar-bill or it might simply be a number on a database in a global ACH system. The thing itself has no value, except that it is useful to facilitate arbitrary trading (where the person from whom you want to obtain something has nothing that he wishes to obtain from you). It also facilitates borrowing, when you need cash now in order to develop something that will later pay it back with interest.

Currency is not and cannot be “scarce.” It must simply be accountable, to any one holder. It must be universally accepted, and it must be available​ in whatever arbitrary quantity may at any moment be required. In the gold-mining camps of yesterday, despite the movie images of a miner throwing a bag of gold-dust on the bar and buying everyone in the house drinks with it, the most common form of currency used in the mining camps was, quite of necessity: company-issued scrip.

There’s nothing intrinsically valuable about “a file containing a hard-to-generate and yet independently-verifiable number.” Yes, it is a novel and potentially very-useful fact that you’re able to generate numbers which simultaneously have these two characteristics in parallel … potentially, very(!!) useful indeed … but it is not “coin.”

“Bitcoin, the Scam” will die as all scams do, but I don’t think we’ve heard the last of the technology.

That’s to prevent someone from paying you, firing up their botnet, reversing the transaction on all their slave systems and getting their bitcoins back. Basically to ensure the transaction is logged on the majority of computers before accepting it as payment. Just a little extra protection due to the way the system deals with netsplits – whatever the majority says is the truth becomes the truth.

This is apparently what Mt Gox is claiming happened to them (millions upon millions of fraudulently reversed transactions) and not a typical bankruptcy from fractional reserve banking they allegedly practiced.

So… if you want to trust your hard earned money to some external entity make sure they practice 100% reserve banking since there’s no ‘lender of last resort’ nor some nor some group of people with guns who can suspend your right to withdrawal your money in specie (eh…bitspecie?) to prevent a classic bank run.

Not that I’m advocating people go out and use bitcoin or anything, I just read up on how it works the other day because I found the idea of Distributed Autonomous Corporations fascinating.

… and while you are fretting about “saving yourself from a classic bank run,” you have nothing with which to go to Starbucks tomorrow morning and buy a muffin and a cup of coffee. I am not impressed. But, “enjoy.” I guess.