Blender 2.8 considerations after 2 months of testing

Hi people.

After a couple of months of 2.8, I decided to put down a list about what kind of polishing I hope will be done for the stable 2.8 release.

Please let me know your opinion and sorry for the broken english.
Cheers
Max

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Very good video and from me one big +1.

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Next time better using the default shortcuts
I stopped watching when you said I can’t box select with the left click

Well he mentioned that if you first select one of the tools which use a manipulator, you can’t then do box select with left mouse drag. Which is true at factory defaults.

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I’m using the default shotcuts.

Both viewport and outliner have Box Select via good old “B” shortcut, but I don’t disagree with your point.
Pretty much every concern raised in the video, I agree with. I hope the devs see this.

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I’d also post your suggestions at Right-Click Select, @MmAaXx. The Blender developers keep an eye on it, and maybe some of your wishes will come true.

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That is an issue related to concept of one active tool mixing select tools and other tools.
Having select box and a transform tool, both active tools at same time, requires more work and exceptions.

First, you need a technical solution that mouse that is not hovering gizmo should trigger a select operator.
Currently, there is not an existing gizmo for all active tool, yet. In those cases, how blender could know if a click should trigger a selection or an action ?

Second, that can not be working with all select tools. If you think about select and drag tool, that does not work.

Third, you have to make a clean presentation of that. It implies two active buttons in Toolbar, two distinguished spaces in Topbar. What should happen in those areas when you want to use 3D cursor active tool or Annotate tool ?

So, obviously, we are a little bit stuck into 2.79 situation having to use B shortcut or adding a shortcut to transform active tool like W for select tool.
But a solution is not obvious because it is questioning fundamentals of 2.8 design.
It can’t be done without making exceptions. It is not an easy thing to communicate intuitively about exceptions.

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Box selecting by default on the outliner would be really nice. When you press on empty space and drag, you box select. When you press on icon and drag, you move an object. Same with shift+select and ctrl+shift+select.

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Thank you for nice input, good points there. About that box selecting problem while using other tool. I was having same issue (obviously) but after some digging I found a workaround. It is explained here and works magic in 2.8.

cheers T.

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In the beginning you mention that you can not rotate the viewport close to the border of a viewport. It works fine over here. Perhaps you just need to download a new build.

This wasn’t clear to me either but what he meant was you can’t rotate your view if the cursor is within the area used by the right N panel when it’s open. Even with all the sections collapsed, the area below looks like viewport but it’s still the panel so no rotate.

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Ah, I see. How do make that area transparent anyways? On my computer it has a dark gray background.

On today’s build with a clean config it’s transparent and I couldn’t find a theme setting for it(it’s probably there, there’s just millions of options and hard to go through now with the redesign), so I don’t know.

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The way they separated the move tools + behavior from selection also bothered me when reviewing 2.8.

One of my biggest criticisms of blender in general is that it continues to fragment everything, rather than consolidate and automate. I had hoped that they could pick up from Modo a bit in this regard, especially as it relates to the selection/move/cursor placement workflow. The user should be able to have the move gizmos, selection and click to use the widget all without separating or delegating it to different tasks.

I do think however this will get ironed out, perhaps with the requirements for the industry standard keymap being developed. (knock on wood)

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Found it. It is called “Region Overlap” and can be found in:

Preferences -> Interface -> Editors -> Region Overlap

I tried it and I agree with MmAaXx that it is wierd that you are not able to navigate in that area.

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@MmAaXx Usual stuff… Some of them being fixed and stuff. Just follow the development and make some noise. :sunglasses:

https://developer.blender.org/T57918#611311
https://developer.blender.org/T58969
https://developer.blender.org/rB5df82b60d1dfe980a0314518143349dd918e0e9f
https://developer.blender.org/rBc4f961a54c18e89eae184672f3939f47b9a896df
https://developer.blender.org/T56950
https://devtalk.blender.org/t/left-click-select-keymap/3168/20

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Sorry, this is a bit of an old post, but I find very comfortable/practical to use lasso select instead (while having yet active the transform or move tool as OP says). Just RMB drag with ctrl pressed to select, or with RMB drag with ctrl+shift pressed to deselect whatever you do the lasso around. Is easy as ctrl and shift are constantly used for everything (MMB+shift for pan, ctrl or shift to add or remove from selection, etc), so your fingers are already there. Also, is more frequent (IMO) to select than deselect.

About moving with the transform, I agree is a bit strange to move while clicking anywhere in the space. In most 3D apps I’ve used, it’s clicking in the object itself, or in the gizmo/its arrows (ie, Max). Still, for now is IMO a good approach as aiming the tiny circle is slower. I’m a strong user of G, E, S, shift S, etc. Specially with combos and double taps (for local axis, MMB for constrain etc) and all. But is very handy to have also these graphical ways (the shortcuts have been one of the main reasons of people I know rejecting to use Blender, since I’m talking about it to friends since 2002).

Also, I find super convenient while also using the transform tool to RMB (right click) while using transform tool, with shift pressed, as this helps to locate wherever the cursor, without ever having to yet use another tool than the transform (so, you can do almost everything just with the transform tool). It also considers the depth, so you get to position the 3D cursor more accurately at first try than ever before, or that seems to me. I model a lot with the cursor. Just like I do in Wings3D with a similar method (dynamically picking reference points).

The only thing I have not been able to configure to really have it all as fast, at least in basic modeling operations, as I have it in Wings or some commercial 3D apps, is to model in a “tweak” style. You need to click a vertex to select it, then click again and drag, to move it. This disallows the very fast modeling one can have in Wings, an inconvenience that a bit keeps you out of “the zone”, loosing a bit of focus for very fast modeling.

Of course, I can use G, I do use it 100% in 2.79b. But one of the reasons why I have kept modeling with Wings, and doing only modeling-finishing (and texture, UVs, render/export, animate, etc) with Blender, for years. Would love even a non default preference to trigger a “tweak mode”. I know often is more useful to not be able to move (by mistake) in the act of selecting. But IMO there should be a way to trigger that mode when you really need to model fast (in my case, very often). Is not the same just click and drag than, click, then click again and drag, in fast modeling. Wings even has a mouse-over (highlight) possibility for fast modeling, just using a move key like G (or whatever you’d configure for that, I use it for keeping the keys similar to Blender). I think this mode was possible with the right click workflow instead of LMB. Still, I’m in favor of left click : Is one of the main issues to get Blender really to compete with the industry, as also, a lot of people have a hard time to re-wire the brain as after all in all the OS left click is for the primary action. Let alone 3D/2D, where is definitely the case for every suite.

IMO, using the tool as mentioned (in the things that are already provided, even if not quickly fast-evident, as also that little thing that I believe is still lacking) modeling becomes quite fast and efficient. I thought I’d share.

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Global scaling is the only thing I am not finding a solution for not leaving the transform to just do that. Here’s an idea for scale if don’t wanna abandon the transform tool (neither use physical keys) in all the time : For the specific configuration for Blender app, in your Wacom panel, set in your cintiq “S” key asigned to the Cintiq’s disc (in any of the directions) in the buttons panels area of the tablet. Or, if u have it already for zoom or brush size for the disc, can use the physical tablet button you have more handy for S key. As it wont leave the transform tool after the S operation. Which IMO is very cool.

Also, if don’t want to use keys for all I mentioned, surely the programmable buttons of your cintiq (like my intuos ones) and the disc, can be programmed for Blender to hold shift, ctrl, or even any combination of them with right click, MMB, or left click mouse buttons (which can also be asigned to : pen side buttons, panel buttons, disc. Any combination.). Even if you would wish more depth, you can combine this all (I’ve made so with other applications) with a tiny jewel that is only for windows, completely free, very useful. Is an utility called X-Mouse Button Control, it allows you to replace any combo of mouse and keyboard so to make each app handle stuff as you wish. It works for me in some rare cases where the apps wont let me do what I want. In general tho, no good to use third party apps for that, I try always to solve it with the wacom panel in its per-application settings. Also, I do use both the intuos pen and its side buttons, the tablet buttons, and the mouse ( in a strange case, I use it all combined with X-Mouse, works great, too). But you can configure all the combos using only the tablet, the wacom driver settings are very advanced and flexible.

EDIT :

Okay, disregard my tiny issue. I just checked that blender stackexchange (always a great place) , seems I wasn’t aware of the depth of config you can go on preferences for every tool in 2.8. To behave it as I wanted, which is how I just set it (very happily) , that is, while using the transform tool (I disabled the visual gizmo, my plan is using it only in some situations), I click and drag to move next vertex and this single action is deselecting the previous one, not moving the previous vertex. this was adding a view3D.select with those settings. I also added the shift click-drag action with another tab, this time another “Transform From Gizmo”, with shift key and click and drag. As Once solved, noticed I couldn’t do a multiple vertex selection and drag move, as it wouldn’t do nothing due to having the shift pressed. The action of interactively adding vertices to the selection requires a click then click drag, but am fine with it, is almost perfect for the way I model with other apps.

Here’s how it looks like now :

Not sure if I’m doing a very stupid thing that will get very slow performance with dense meshes, lol. Hoping not.

Then also, I can select with the built in lasso ctrl + RMB drag. Place cursor with shift RMB (click or drag move). And I personally prefer rotate and scale with just S and R keys (in tablet buttons or by keys).In keys is great as ie, RXX will rotate in X local, and stuff like that. SZ scale in Z axe, etc (and absolutely always loved the MMB in the middle of a drag to constrain to axe). But there are stages in a project where I notice still the gizmo is handy. So I wanted to have the gizmo tool able to do everything. I think I got it… Only that to move a multiple vertex selection, is having shift pressed, with my trick to otherwise fast model by click-drag with transform tool. (or just use G key, lol, and all perfect).

What i really dont like is The Mode Change Pie Menu, i just want to easily jump from Edit mode to weightpaint, from object mode to pose mode, fast