Blender 2.8 development thread

I must’ve missed that, good thing then.

The only thing is to make sure the design does not compel the user to make bunches of them (ie. only needing a couple or so at most). Yes the number of popovers the user can create should not be limited.

I get what you mean and I personally don’t like the popovers too much. They aren’t annoying or anything, they are just bad design imo. That being said I like the top menu as a concept I just don’t think that the developers are looking at other software to see how they are supposed to be used.

I think you are thinking about the top bar a little “wrong”. it shouldn’t be about how do we get all these tools into this bar, it should be about how to we design the tools so that they don’t need 50 different options to do what the user wants. That to me makes more sense. if the whole point of the UI refresh is to make thing simpler/easier for users, then rethinking the tools and how they work and what parameters are really needed should be part and parcel in the process. Maybe that’s already happening.

At least for me the Properties panel is a bit of a mess. That whole things needs to be redesigned completely imo. Adding another tab/view to an already over-saturated panel is going backwards imo. If the properties panel were rethunk or redesigned then adding paramters there would make sense.

It’s inevitable… Some tools are too complex by nature, and the finer level of control is always desirable, so yeah, we need those options…

At least for me the Properties panel is a bit of a mess. That whole things needs to be redesigned completely imo. Adding another tab/view to an already over-saturated panel is going backwards imo. If the properties panel were rethunk or redesigned then adding paramters there would make sense.

A redesign would be neat, yeah… But still, imho, it’s the more logical place to see the properties of things… This would eliminate the clutter a lot…

Campbell returned “Object, Edit, etc” Modes to its usual place in 3D view for now…
https://developer.blender.org/rBc052346fbf0e3bdfdd9dd48669985ea065e07185

This also leaves more space available in Top Bar.

Top bar was a good place for this.

Well, before I had given explanations about the inconvenience of having that selector there. The selector is a property of 3D View, and you do not always have 3D View near that corner


I thought the top bar could be in each view or depending on which view is active.

The top bar is a global space and is to only be found at the top of the window. They contain information that impacts every window and avoids duplication with two or more of a single window type open.

The possible mass duplication of global functions in 2.7x has been considered a major quirk that should be addressed.

I had not thought of that. Now that you mention it, TopBar should belong to each Editor, or at least belong to 3d View. Because in my example, all TopBar is also distant from 3D View anyway. If it were like this finally, I think there would be no problem returning selector to top bar.

In the same time, you only do that kind of layout to get a preview of your material, if you want to edit you mesh or to sculpt or anything else you’ll need a bigger 3d view anyway

Same map plugged as a displacement map with a displacement node in a pricipled shader (top)
and converted to a normal map using a bump node (bottom)
Only the bottom version is right, and there’s an issue with displacement
The map (8k, 16bits tif) works fine in Cycles

Blender 2.8 Industry Standard Keymap Proposal by William Reynish.
Dang thats gona be controversial :popcorn:
(it’s not meant as a replacement for the standard keymap but for the 3DS Max & Maya Keymaps)

The proposed reasoning’s are plausible to me and astonishingly straightforward.
I am gladly looking forward to those changes.:smiley:

1 Like

I would switch to this industry standard key config in a heartbeat and never look back if it comes to blender.

Some ideas of the proposal could be good. But I don’t see reason to break spacebar and enter edit mode. The search in spacebar is the best thing of blender for new users ¿You are searching something? write here. It’s so faster that I preffer use that to know some hotkeys. I think that it’s a good thing for new users.

I really don’t understand why the industry standard keymap does not follow the maya style navigation. That is the biggest problem when switching between programs and in my experience most of the 3D programs use the maya navigation or at least they offer maya style navigation in the settings. The maya navigation is also much better if you have problems with CTS as you don’t have to press the middle mouse button so often. There are only a few mouses with dedicated MMB and the wheel is usually hard to press.

I am actually curious about this. Maya style navigation still assumes Alt+MMB for panning, and arguably, panning is the most frequent of all navigation operations, since while you do use Orbit, Zoom and Pan equally in perspective view, you often also spend time in ortho views like top, left and front, and in those, you usually don’t orbit. So this wouldn’t really solve any issues with MMB. On top of that, in Maya’s 2D editors like Hypershade or Node editor, Maya still utilizes plain MMB without modifier key for panning.

1 Like

Marmoset uses this keymap;

Panning: alt+ MMB
Orbit: alt+LMB, drag Background
Zoom: alt+RMB, drag Background
Center on selection: ctrl+ F

For Tablet users, MMB is indeed unfavorable,

ZBrush which is centered around Artists using tablets, has this as its primary keymap;

Panning: Alt+Click & drag Background
Orbit: Click & drag Background
Zoom: Alt+Click, Release Alt, drag Background
Center on selection: F

It would be best to also have Tablet users in mind.

Actually I don’t use panning that much because I use center the view to selected instead and if I need to pan it is usually just a fast movement (less than a second). Orbiting is a different story. When reviewing the model or shader I am constantly orbiting around to get the best possible perception of the shape and material. The mouse button is really not designed to stay pressed for a longer time and many mouses that I had in the past broke after just few months of usage. The switch under the mouse wheel just didn’t register the press of the button correctly and it went off and on during panning constantly. I had the same problem with cheap mouses but also with quite expensive ones. It would be probably better to avoid the middle mouse button for navigation totaly but the problem is that you can’t map all three navigation commands to LMB because it is already used for selection. The RMB is also not a best option here because the ring finger is quite weak and using it for all three navigation commands would quickly lead to fatigue. The maya style navigation is good because it spreads the load on two (eventually three) fingers and so you can work longer without pain in the wrist.
Panning with MMB in 2D editors is IMO OK as a standard. For the sake of consistency I would map both the MMB and Alt+MMB for panning. There is no other use for the MMB anyway.
But the biggest argument for the maya style navigation as a standard is that it really is quite widely spread (Maya, C4D, UE4, Substance). On the contrary I know only two 3D programs that use the 3MMB navigation - Blender and Sketchup.