Can we please stop with this retarded battle? Honestly, from both sides. Its completely muddying this thread and has been for quite a while now.
It is a complete moot point whether LMB or RMB is better or even how it originated. Blender 2.8 is not the first release to offer LMB select as an option damnit!
Now that Brecht is working his ass of to make it better, which in the end will benefit everyone regardless of what you use, some people still can’t control themselves and have to argue sides.
Both options are present, and both options will stay. RMB select will not be removed with 2.8 nor is it likely to ever be removed. I can’t believe some people are literally so obsessed with the fact whether there is a small explanation on why RMB select exists or what turns out to be the final default option that they have to jump at every opportunity to defend it.
Blender is a whole lot more than it’s control scheme, stop identifying so heavily with it! In fact, from 2.8 onwards, the control scheme can finally take a backseat because people will have more and better options than ever before! Blender will finally be judged on everything else it has to offer. This is something that should be celebrated by everyone involved!
This entire thread should be filled with people excited about the work that Brech is doing yet its just arguing back and forth. I do not understand the people that are so obsessed with RMB select that they feel the need to come into this thread and “educate” the people who are excited about LMB select.
Are you really that hungry for attention? Or are you so egotistical that you cannot see that just because you don’t see the need for an option or feature you feel that therefore its redundant and you can frustrate the discussion about it as much as you like? What the hell is wrong with you people?
The constructive posts that are working towards solutions for issues that pop up, and yes they will pop up, are outnumbered by useless posts about 10 to 1.
I know this will fall on deaf ears but JFC I have to say it.
Wrong person reply I can’t fix now, sorry ElDirector.
A lot of blender’s core is defined by it’s control scheme, its workflow. Up until now a lot of blender’s design revolved around the removal of ambiguity in tools and actions. It’s immediate tools and functions follow directly on from that.
Again with the quoting of single elements, without context, clearly for the sake of finding something to argue about. Yes, Blenders workflow is intimately tied with its control scheme, hence why the RMB select will always stay because it clearly works for a lot of people.
However it does not kill blender to have LMB Select as an option and have that option as viable as possible which is what this thread is about.
Here is some context you so conveniently left out.
You are not making a point, you are just looking to be argumentative. Its clear that you have no interest in LMB select which is quite odd considering your enormous presence in this thread.
What exactly are you contributing to this thread? I am not particularly interested in your answer. I already unsubscribed from this thread and I will mute you after this reply if this forum offers the option. Its a question you should answer for yourself.
I think the answer is already quite clear for everyone else in this thread who actually does have a vested interest in LMB select working as well as it can be. Both for the mouse as well as for a tablet.
While I don’t think arguing in a forum will settle this question, to say one is not better than the other is just conciliatory nonsense. Obviously one is better by any given set of criteria, we simply lack the means to determine which in a scientific manner. Nor do we need to, since both are supported.
FWIW, that’s how I use the 3D cursor to. It’s either to snap to a given object, element, or the origin for purposes of setting an exact object origin or pivot point for editing; or it’s to hide the bloody thing because even after nearly two decades of using the software, I still occasionally click the wrong mouse button and put the damned thing in the way.
Good grief, it will never stop. I’ve been using blender since 2000, like version 1.8 or something crazy, and people have argued about left click vs right click the entire time.
But Blender is flexible, pick the one you want and let everyone else pick the one they want. Live and let live, man.
The only problem I see is if they decide to remove the option, that would not be cool. So pick your buttons, relax, and go make some art!
Side note, I never understood the argument that “industry standard programs do things this way so we need to be more like them!”. Seems to me that if all 3D programs worked the same, why have more than one available? Just a rhetorical question, I probably won’t be back to read this thread for awhile anyway.
The unfortunate thing is the hope I had about rancorous discussion ending with this fully formed left-click oriented workflow, as people who argued for a more standard operation scheme get their wish at last as an option.
As of now, all it has done is bring up an argument of whether it should be a thing instead of forcing people to do everything “the Blender way”. Avoiding long-winded discussions such as this is part of the point of 2.8 having different workflow types available
Now that I see Parel voicing himself, I feel the need to support that.
100% as Parel says, was my experience as well.
I would never under any circumstances use the vanilla blender. If that was the only app in the world - I wouldn’t be doing 3D.
And this coming from someone who uses blender as their main tool daily in studios!
I have my own setup that I’ve invested a lot of time and patience creating. It took a good while of tinkering with it to finally start integrating blender into my pipeline at work.
In the last 4-6 years across 3 studios, I have used blender as my main app. If for some reason I could not use my setup - I would find another tool. Blender-vanilla is not an option.
I know you work professionally in CG as well, like Parel and myself. You should know better!!! You can not deny that you have come across some great artists along the way that share the same story as Parel and myself!
“…you were never going to do anything of note with it anyway” - that’s just ignorant dude.
You’re only furthering my point that no one who quit Blender because of RMB selection was going to do anything useful with it. The ability to customize Blender had existed for years, as you’ve attested. You recognized that Blender’s toolset fit your needs, regardless of a potentially annoying control scheme, and you adapted it to fit your style. Anyone who quits ANY software because of such a niggling issue was looking for a reason to fail. Of course I use a customized hotkey set and layouts in Blender, just like I do in literally every other 3d package I’ve ever touched. Blender had (and has) a lot of issues worthy of complaint, and even some I would say are worth walking away from it over depending on your job, but c’mon… I don’t see how anyone could seriously sit there and tell me that the Herculean twenty second effort it takes to say oh, okay, right click selects things here, and commit it to memory is the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
Hmm, maybe a setup helper could be a thing? Such as you get the question “Select the cube”, and whatever button you press becomes your default. Followed by “Now rotate the camera”, and again, your first input becomes your default.
Perhaps worth discussing, or maybe just a silly idea
And what do you think is the percent of people who stuck around to invest quite a bit of time into an app they know nothing about?!
It took me at least 5-6 years to adopt blender after trying it multiple times and quiting on it.
In my opinion, it’s around 5-10%. So the other 90% would definitely do something with it, as I’m talking about professionals who already are seasoned artists.
Honestly what do you think is the reason you hardly come across anyone in the industry who uses blender? And that is the case, is it not?
oh my god i spent literally a year on an amine character and it still looked horrible in the end. Looking back at it i did so many things wrong, and went through so much frustration, i dont recall how i got past it but it sure was something that motivated me.
Many files have been deleted, but i saved these as a trophy. Look at the time stamps, it started before october 2014
No one uses Blender in the industry because it’s simply not as good as the competition unless all you’re doing is modeling. No one here likes to hear it, but it’s the truth. I think 2.8 will turn some heads, but until Blender is ready to really play nice in a pipeline or until it addresses the other 90% of the production process that is expected from a full CG/VFX suite, it’s going to remain an interesting footnote in the professional realm, and no amount of LMB select-level adjustments is going to change that. There isn’t a single established house in the world that’s going to uproot their pipeline to switch to Blender for most tasks, especially when it still doesn’t have things like proper Alembic and OpenVDB support (things that, by all logic, Blender should have been painstakingly supporting from day 0), a true C/C++ plugin/modifier API, or any of the other countless things taken for granted by professionals in the field. Blender is nowhere near being able to pass itself off as “Maya, but free”, and that’s what it will take to see wide adoption. Professionals swear by ZBrush for crying out loud. If they’re willing to deal with that interface, then Blender is a no-brainier. The difference is, ZBrush delivers what professionals need, so they stick with it. Blender, very fast modeling aside, offers nothing that can’t be had better for a (relative) pittance of payment elsewhere.
I agree with you to a large degree about taking over the full pipeline.
Modeling - good modeler - how many people have you come across in the studios you worked at that use blender for modeling? Why do you think that number is extremely low?!
And no, not all professionals swear by ZBrush! That is the same ignorant statement as your first one I replied to. Why is Mudbox around?! And who made it? Skycastle - Weta anyone, why? You know why, you’ve been around long enough, you know how the story goes.
I have personally met at least the same number of people who hate ZBrush and don’t use it, as people who use it (of which some love it, some still hate it but still use it). And again, like you, I meet a lot of people who do CG for their living.
Well maybe AD has something to do with that. XSI anyone? You should know, you’re an XSI fan!
Does not change the actual dynamic of the times when Mudbox was made. You don’t just make something like that over a week and without a reason (which was clearly stated at the time!).
I only made one point, I wasn’t arguing with your entire post, hence why I only quoted the single element.
I just didn’t want you to form your opinion of any arguments happening here from a position that does not intrinsically link blender’s control scheme with it’s workflow, and thus the core way it functions.
Who in here is apparently continually arguing that a good LMB-select workflow shouldn’t be a thing?
I myself welcome it. And as I have said I’d even welcome it as default if we had something like “Why Right?”.
Nice, another smartass remark on that topic. You’re getting that, my post was clearly in the context of the RMB workflow. “Again, remember, the initial decision is to separate action and selection. Given that,”
People need to read what’s actually being said rather than skimming and assuming, before trying to argue with something that isn’t arguing with them.
I would argue(‡) it’s only partially that. I think next to no-one uses it because it is mediocre in a lot of areas AND the effort required to grok the user interface was not worth that reward.
Zbrush has a very unintuitive (to many people) user interface, but the pay-off is being able to use the most powerful sculpting tool on the market. People are willing to invest in crazy user interfaces if the pay-off is worth it. I agree with you - Blender isn’t there yet(‡).
Well, to be fair, there isn’t a single established house in the world that wants to uproot their pipeline to switch to anything commercial either. Once you establish a proven pipeline, it’s generally only incrementally improved upon. There are, of course, exceptions but I’d posit they are pretty damned rare.
We’ve talked about this in the past. You know I agree with you. Especially when it comes to the BF view regarding non-GPL native extensions. However, that is a far cry from saying artists that get stuck at the interface were never going to create anything of note.
You concede that the upside of learning Blender isn’t that great because of various areas where it’s less than perfect. Would it not be reasonable then to assume that some people see that, realise as they are struggling with the interface that the payoff is not worth (to them) the investment needed to learn it, and move on to a program with a higher potential return at the end? You know, making a smart cost/benefit analysis regarding their time so they are able to make something of note quicker and easier later?
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‡ For the overly zealous moderator, “in my opinion”
