Blender 2.8 is now fully usable with left-click object selection

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(Richard Culver) #649

1:24:30

He explains the exact reason. “saves you from mouse strain”. And this is not the only place he has said this. But it is the most recent.

Nothing to do with right or left handed.


(ManuelGrad) #650

What mouse strain? Do you browse the web and think “god, my index finger is killing me, i wish i could click with the other one”? How weak are your hands? :slight_smile:

Ton is left handed (https://youtu.be/mf2uAJepT44?t=221) and for him the right mouse button is prominent one. So this makes sense. Mouse strain not, this is just a try to justify it.


(Antaioz) #651

Have a look at the history
https://www.blender.org/foundation/history/

It started as an in-house creation tool, influenced by feedback directly from the artists using it. If the reason was so insignificant as “Ton is left handed”, the artists would have asked for it to be changed, and there would have been a simple button switch (like there is in the OS) that Ton could use.

The fact that the development at the base level was performed with direct feedback from the artists themselves should be enough evidence that nothing so core to blender was designed on a whim, and the reasons go beyond even mouse strain.


(pitibonom) #652

I really don’t know what was the prob with LMB selections ^^
since ages, there was a choice in prefs: select with right / left

and it worked like a charm !!!

in 2.8 this option disappeared and you have to setup shortcut in key settings for 3D view.

sounds like L/R-mouse button is just a storm in a glass ^^


(zeauro) #653

I always said it. But while you are using RMB to select, LMB is used for everything else.
So, LMB is still the predominant click with RMB keymap.

Seriously, right-handed user are currently probably more annoyed by redo panel and toolbar on the left of screen than RMB keymap.


(Piotr Adamowicz) #654

Ton is referring to the whole workflow, where you point with the mouse, often sloppily, and effectively use the whole rest of your keyboard as mouse buttons to perform specific actions. As opposed to having the mouse travel back and forth to on-screen buttons you click, and then return to the modelling area, or constantly trying to precisely hit tiny manipulators on screen. That is what saves you from mouse strain. Not the fact the Select is on RMB (or LMB for that matter).

This would be obvious to you if you had included the next clause of the sentence in your quote - “saves you from mouse strain, especially, to use a little bit more fingers

Taking a half-sentence out of context and making Ton look silly is not cool.


(Richard Culver) #655

Not when I am browsing the web, no. Never once occurred to me. You got me there.


(zeauro) #656

That may sound stupid to young people using ergonomic wireless tablet.
But there was a time when working 8/10 hours a day with something like a block with a wire that sometimes had to be pulled may cause fatigue.


(BTolputt) #657

FWIW, never happened whilst I’ve been modelling, sculpting, texturing, rigging, or animating either. You know, in case you were wondering whether we all missed the snark. :wink:


(pitibonom) #658

ahah XD

sound like the eternal fight between APPLE ( mono button mouse ) and WIN ( piano mouse )
you like the 1st ? i like the second !!!
you like the second ? plz lemme introduce you with the latest mouse brain implant that allows you to control you coffee maker !!!

guyz, there’s no usefull discussion on this ! not more than discussion about red that is nicer than blue or blondes more gorgeous than brunes :stuck_out_tongue:

The big point is that today, software, computers and developpers can make everybody happy ! you like ‘left’ okay: preferences->selectwithleft
you like ‘right’ ? no prob: preferences->selectwithright
you like ‘blondes’ ? okay preferences->075467xxxx
:smiley:
what upsets me is that it’s not offered even if it’s damn fucking simple to do !!!

and to thos who will tell me that it burdens the soft with useless things, i’d answer…
plz have a look at the 2.8 interface :wink:


(Richard Culver) #659

Yeah I think a lot of people feel the same way.

Which is why we are getting the new map. Isn’t that right?

In the mean time the question came up as to why the other. That is the answer.

And yeah. I do experience fatigue. Especially when I have to work all day with Maya. Which is often lately. Not so much with Blender. As I have stated many many times. I have long term experience with both apps. And there is a noticeable difference.

That is how it is for me.

And also many others as well as Ton. Asked and answered. Moving on.


(ambi) #660

Talking about mouse strain the over use of the middle mouse button is a real issue for me, personally. I always configure it so that it’s used to place the 3D cursor, and not constantly used for pretty much everything.

A lot of mouses use the middle mouse button as a wheel click, which is very awkward compared to left and right click. I have one of those mice.

I do not think it’s a good default because of ergonomics. Maya style viewport navigation uses much less the middle mouse button than the Blender default one, and is used widely in all kinds of software, so that is what I default to.

tl;dr: Why (the overuse of) middle click is bad, two reasons: 1) bad ergonomics, 2) conflicting muscle memory


(Piotr Adamowicz) #661

This is why I always use the “emulate 3-button mouse” setting with RCS. Alt is so much nicer than clicking the wheel.


(BTolputt) #662

Actually, I don’t believe that is the case. The argument about using left-click for selection has been centred around and (I believe) succeeded on the familiarity of the interface for people who have used other software and/or use other software in their pipeline with Blender. The focus has been about muscle-memory, intuition in learning the software, and how that affects industry adoption - not whether or not a left-click select reduces “strain”.

More importantly, I don’t believe that they have decided to sacrifice strain for familiarity in the new keymap. They are still providing a “one hand on keyboard, one hand on mouse” interface which, listening to Ton’s complete comments in the video, is what he was talking about (more fingers in use and keyboard taps as mouse click replacements). The difference being that the unmodified left-click isn’t dedicated to a marginally used feature but one which people are used to from using everything from word processors to 3DCC applications. :wink:


(Unreal3DFX) #664

Is it just me but i cannot move UV maps/islands ? latest build from morning.


(kkar) #665

I should recommend you to move to a tablet, a tablet interaction is much more intiutive with the default Blender navigation than a mouse.


(0rAngE) #666

yup, it’s broken.
noticed this my self when i was rebuilding my config

Edit:
Actually works with the current buidlbot. Fixed :slight_smile:


(tischbein3) #667

I do have similar experience. Can’t pinpoint exactly wich factors do play into it, but I definitive do have more energy after 8 hours in blender than some other applications.

EDIT: Also I don’t feel less the need to be “in the zone” when working with it.


(tischbein3) #668

Its by design, you basically move the cursor (current time) so its right click. This sounds a bit weird, but as soon as you use the graph editor / dopesheet, where you use the left click for selecting keyframes and right for the timeline, this makes a lot more sense.


(Antaioz) #669

“dedicated to a marginally used feature”? Seriously, stop spreading misinformation. You can dislike rmb-select all you want, but stop acting like the left mouse button is ‘wasted’ on the 3d cursor.

It’s still used the same amount if not more than the right mouse button. Clicking buttons, activating tools, confirming tools, clicking and dragging on gizmos, painting, literally anything you do in the properties panel or outliner. These are hardly “marginally used features”, not to mention they’re the same as any word processor or 3DCC.
One facet of what the left mouse button typically does was moved to the right mouse button, this does not immediately make the left mouse button disused.