Blender 2.8 is now fully usable with left-click object selection

So you want RMB to do brush strokes in the viewport, and LMB to do selection? That’s what we have now, if you simply swap the buttons.

You’re really going to bring up this argument, where we dig up all the old reasons that have been said before, about why action/selection separation is useful, just because you don’t want a “Why right” tooltip/link next to the selection selector? A tooltip/link which I might add would get someone like myself to actually not care if lmb select was default?

I never said it has to be some AI, I just said smarter ways.

For example, practically speaking:
I have been using LMB based keymap for over a year with great success. Even though I model a lot, and use gizmos all the time, you know how often I run into a scenario where a gizmo overlaps with for example vertices at one point on screen? Maybe twice a day?

And what do I do twice I day, I hit a Q key, which on my keymap toggles gizmos on and off. Once I turn off the gizmo, I can perform the selection, and turn it back on. Doing this twice a day isn’t much of an issue. However, the Q key isn’t just for that. It toggles what WER (Move, Rotate, Scale) keys do too. Gizmos are on, then WER keys toggle between move, rotate and scale gizmos, when Q key toggles the gizmos off, then WER keys toggle between freeform move, rotate and scale tools in the same way GRS keys do it in default blender keymaps. So it’s not like that key serves only one purpose, to fix that overlap issue.

My overall point is that Blender went with very overcomplicated solution which rippled throughout it’s entire UI design for years and made it less accessible to people just to solve a problem which is quite rare and not very big.

No it didn’t.
It has other benefits.

Not at all, where did I say I want RMB to do brush strokes? I want LMB to do brush strokes. In painting modes, such as sculpting, selection is not nearly as often performed as painting, because you don’t mask areas to paint nearly as often as you select element when doing polygonal modeling. So if selection in painting modes was something like modifier key+LMB, that would make sense.

So as I said, you add an inconsistency that the alternative doesn’t have.

That refers to a workflow without active tool triggered by left click.
You are not using gizmo when they are annoying.
That can’t be useful to newbies who don’t know the alternatives.

i’m wondering, have you used other 3D software besides Blender, ever?

Yes. And in those softwares, too, you don’t have selection and action available at same moment.
You are always making a manipulation to switch left click behavior from selection to action or you are clicking on a dedicated area.

Yes, sure, I understand that, but I mean when I look at the bigger picture…

There are quite a few more software packages than Blender, such as Max, Maya, Modo, etc… In the essence of 3D modeling and viewport, they use exactly the same principles:

Mesh elements or objects you can select, and gizmos appearing on top of them. All of these are used widely in the industry, all of these have artists using them who are very efficient, and most of the beginners will actually tell you they had easier time learning these than when they tried learning Blender. Even despite the fact that all the other 3D packages have no concept of separating action and selection by dividing them across two mouse buttons. So the selection and action overlap may be way less of an issue then you may feel it is. :slight_smile:

You mention how annoying it is when it happens, but it’s also important to think about if it happens frequently enough to be accommodated for by radically changing the core concept of the mouse and keyboard input in the software.

Making an extra click to switch behavior is not an issue. It is what I proposed.

I just explained why I feel RMB has an advantage.
I have no problem with people using left click or left click being the default.
But it looks like left clickers have a serious problem with right clickers saying right click may feel faster.

Our current problem is not that RMB was first choice made 20 years.
It is that current LMB keymap proposal is not sufficient.

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I would not say serious problem at all. I just had issue with it since it implies that it’s the actual mouse button which matters. It’s not about if selection is on left or right click, it’s about the separation of action and selection. So if you said left or right click is faster, then that would imply if you simply swapped the buttons, it would get slower, which wouldn’t be true.

What may actually be faster, in some cases, is having ability to separate action from selection, if two of those actions can be executed at the same point on screen. But the concept of separating action and selection is not exclusive to which mouse button is the selection performed with :slight_smile:

I think left clickers don’t have issue with LMB because this is the same in every software.
In blender it can be faster but it’s not something absolutly necessary and honnesly I never had the feeling I’m slow.

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I agree with this completely, that’s why I’ve made my own. :slight_smile: A Simple Keymap for Blender

I’d be very happy if you could perhaps at least give it a try, even if you don’t intent to switch keymap, and let me know what you think. Just give it at least few minutes to play with. You will see that it’s quite feasible and actually quite comfortable to use Blender with LMB centric workflow. :slight_smile:

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I can’t test this yet, but if it is the daily builds I will be doing so this evening. I have been using left click select since the 2.4x days and up until now the ‘action’ went to the right mouse button so this combination of selection and action on one mouse button will be new…so far I am just seeing people bickering and not actually commenting on how this is working especially with the active tools

It’s because action/selection separation is a mouthful and difficult to describe.

The right mouse select is what almost everyone who has ever complained about it has called it, so it’s what gets referenced. Those same people would be unhappy if the mouse buttons were simply reversed, but people look at the immediately observable factor, rather than the deeper factors reasons causing it.

I think the devs don’t want to put in an “action/selection” toggle, rather leaving each tied to a mouse button option. If they were separated the confusion could be cleared up with a “Why separate”, rather than a “Why right”.

Yeah, and I was actually against it because it could make at least some newbies consider using RMB instead. I think overall it’d be better to push all the new Blender users towards LMB, leave the RMB there for oldschoolers, and then gradually let it die. That way, in let’s say 5 years of time, there would be no more LMB vs RMB camps in Blender community, and we could finally talk about more important stuff :slight_smile:

If we still keep pushing both RMB and LMB at the same time, these tribal clashes will continue till eternity.

That would literally be the worst outcome.

The separation of action and selection has workflow benefits, for crying out loud. Anyone who wants to use blender to it’s fullest would use that. New users should be told this workflow exists as an expert workflow.

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LMB Daily build:

it seem I can’t grab move vertices in edit mode of all object.

using RMB i can grab move vertices.

It is not what I am saying. Meaning of my starting point is that current situation is that if you swapped buttons , one choice is working in all cases. And the other one is not.
It was just an observation. I did not want to say that a left click workflow could not be satisfying.

So, we agree. But I don’t think it is a good approach to blame action/selection separation.
In keymap configuration system, you have ability to make some shortcuts using the switch from LMB to RMB and another to not make the switch.
I don’t understand why in vertex paint mode, while face masking is on and LMB keymap is used, RMB is not used to select.
LMB is used to paint in both keymaps for this mode.
I thought : Why not being consistent and not keep RMB for face selection in this mode ?
But if left clickers would prefer a way to switch LMB behavior, it should exist.
Currently, they are forced to switch between edit mode and paint mode.

Yes. But you are a guy with experience.
Here, the problem is to bring blender to newbies using left click for active tools.
That is already slow workflow.
If there was a way to ease their discovery of blender features and speed up a little bit their use of them, that would be great.

That’s a step backward IMHO.
Should go like that:

  1. LMB click’n’drag within an object shilouette (Object mode) or a vertex/face/edge hotspot (Edit mode) = grab’n’drag
  2. LMB click’n’drag outside an object shilouette (Object mode) or a vertex/face/edge hotspot (Edit mode) = Box Select
  3. simple LMB click = remove all selection.
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