Blender 2.8 is now fully usable with left-click object selection


(BTolputt) #670

You misread my post. The “marginally used feature” is manual placement of the 3D cursor, not clicking the left/right mouse button (which is not a “feature”, merely a means of triggering a feature).

Placing the 3D cursor manually by clicking in the view port is, from experience (personal and second-hand), a marginally used feature. At least compared to the variety of other uses for a mouse button you so kindly pointed out in your post.

And just so no-one has to embarrass themselves - yes, I accept your apology for flying off the handle about something I didn’t actually say. :wink:

(Antaioz) #671

I didn’t misread anything.
You just keep assuming the 3d cursor is the primary function of the left mouse button. It isn’t.

(Richard Culver) #672

Sure, but the argument is a good one. And I have made the case over the years, that familiarity and all that comes from things you work at. Why do you work at it? Because it is a better way to do something.

In Blender this is not restricted to just right click. And most apps have keyboard and mouse. Ton is not referring to that. Watch again he specifically is talking about fingers in relation to right click.

By the way this is generally accepted as true and Ton has said this for years. It is not an issue for debate.

The mouse input scheme in Blender is the best there is in any app I have ever used with regard to speed and strain.

That is not really debatable for anyone who experiences strain.

What is debatable is if that matters to everyone. Clearly irrelevant for many.

So we have the issue of motivation to learn. It can be related to many things, and strain is one if them.

So we get the Left Click map.

In this debate It has been asked and answered many times. Why Right Click in the first place?

Because it is part of the overall mouse behavior scheme designed to reduce strain.

That is the actual answer.

(BTolputt) #673

Yeah, actually, you did misread me if you are under the impression that I said anything about the “primary function of the left mouse button”.

I clearly and explicitly stated that it was “the unmodified left-click” dedicated to manual 3D cursor placement. Without modifiers, that’s what left click does in the default 2.79 keymap.

You’re arguing now for the sake of arguing. I’m not interested in that. If you want to continue flying off the handle based on imagined arguments, please let me know so I can add you to the ignore list. I’ve got better things to do with my time than work out which of your posts are reasonable and which are looking for a fight.

(Antaioz) #674

So you consider clicking on buttons/gizmos, confirming actions, all the instances I mentioned a ‘modified’ left click?
I’m simply trying to stop the spread of misinformation, which comes about from your understanding of “unmodified” being so vague in that post. It sounds to others as though you’re referring to left click without modifier keys or somesuch.

(BTolputt) #675

FWIW, I think we’re going to take different things away from the video (possibly because the discussion isn’t directed well and less than perfect english used). My take is that Ton was justifying the addition of more fingers into the workflow to reduce strain, not that right-click select specifically does that but that not making the input left-click only/primary (context you get by listening to the lead up to your timemark).

Whilst Ton states explicitly that he thinks that right-click select is “very good”, he doesn’t make the argument that right-click select reduces strain. I feel that you have to significantly diminish what he says beforehand to make his words mean that.

I do agree that the overall mouse behaviour scheme” is designed to reduce strain, but as he says afterward the issue is not in which button is needed for select (left/right) but in the fact the overall scheme does/did not work well with the left-click select “default” as setup in the version of Blender at the time (I would agree with him there).

(BTolputt) #676

Not interested in fighting, Antaioz. My post does not state that the left-click is wasted on the 3d cursor nor that moving one feature makes it immediately disused. You incorrectly stated I have said that. You are wrong.

You either misread my post (& can’t bring yourself to back down) or you are deliberately trolling. Either way - you’ve ruled yourself out as worth engaging. Goodbye.

(Antaioz) #677

Again, I didn’t misread anything and I’m not trolling.
I explained in my last post, that evidently the words you wrote did not convey what you wanted - that is not my fault. But I’m not going to say I ‘misread’ something, when it’s clear anyone reading that post will get the same impression out of it. I’m shutting that impression down because it’s misinformation.

If you wanted to bring up the 3d cursor, you could have said that the tool assigned to the left mouse button is marginally used, and it would have been more understandable than “unmodified left click”. The tool is, but that would still ignore a whole ton of context as to why it is a marginally used, non-destructive tool, given the plethora of other things the left mouse button handles and the contexts that are brought up by those factors.

You take every opportunity to (attempt to) put-down rmb-select in your posts aswell, which doesn’t help the situation. Your entire post was fine, and the last sentence could have even been worded differently, but instead you chose to yet again, for no reason, try and take a jab at rmb-select, but then apparently I’m the one “looking for a fight”?

(Richard Culver) #678

Well, he does in more than one place in that video as well as other discussions I have seen over the years, specifically refers to right click as more ergonomic.

And absolutely. It is Right Click, and all of the other things combined. But he specifically calls out “regarding Right or Left click” and talks about liking to work with users who understand the ergonomic reasons but also acknowledge the reasons to make things familiar. Which by the way is something Ton is advocating. So I am not so sure why people are having such a hard time accepting the reason for Right Click in the first place. Since Ton has said this many times. And also he is saying he sees the need to balance that with other priorities.

And Right Click - for these same reasons - is not going away. Not just because it is familiar to power users, but also because it is an ergonomic workflow.

The reason so much work is being put into Left Click is because it is a complex issue to make that work.

But also as a result some people will never experience Right Click. And this would be their loss, if they have strain issues. I do. So do many.

So there is no benefit to these people to bury the real reason it is there. This argument does not do anyone any good, considering there will eventually be a fully functional Left Click option.

So isn’t it time to accept that reason, the real reason, and move on? The argument does not accomplish anything.

(tyrant monkey) #679

So is there a thread where people who use left mouse button are actually testing things? I still hate this keymap but I am trying to at least test drive things but trying to read this thread to see what going on is pointless.

(Antaioz) #680

(0rAngE) #681

Admins, can you please rename this thread to “RMB Evangelism” ?!

(cgCody) #682

Does anyone know how this is working out with Blender’s behavior of selecting the closest vert/edge/poly if your click isn’t dead on target?

By the way, is it just me, or does @BTolputt and @Antaioz sound like an old married couple in every thread they post in? Sorry, had to be said. All in good fun, though! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

(BTolputt) #683

The guy takes issue with any & every post that is even mildly critical of right-click select. I’m someone that is openly critical of right-click select.

That said, whilst the forum removed the ignore feature in it’s “upgrade”, I put together a script to remove his posts from my local view. He can shout into the void now all he likes, he’s no longer my problem.

(0rAngE) #684

Works pretty good. The hotspot in EditMode is a little bit larger than what I would prefer, but still good. In order to deselect you need to be away from any subcomponents, on my screen-res less than an inch.
In ObjectMode the hotspot is narrower, it feels even better.

Loved this feature since it was implemented. For some reason I always thought that Pavel Lyczkowski was the one responsible for this.

(Pitiwazou) #685

LMB Win! :smiley:

(Antaioz) #686

Really, everyone saw this coming.

Now we just need a little question mark explaining RCS and we can all be happy.

(Charbel Nicolas) #687

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

(TheRedWaxPolice) #688

(polyboy) #689

No Need for Diskussion here. It does not matter if right or left, it is important that the user has the choice and that it works.