Blender 2.8 is now fully usable with left-click object selection

i think they are following this guideline where they compare other apps common hotkeys…i too would prefer 3d cursor to remain on RMB and W on special but they are adapting “the industry standard” in this one.
https://developer.blender.org/T54963

2 Likes

I use the options in the context menu far more often than I set the cursor position by clicking so I’m in very much in favor of context being on RMB.

3 Likes

sure, each has his own preference and how he likes to work , what i found out is if you use RMB as the context special you won’t be able to move 3D cursor freely u’ll have to switch tool or use shift which is point and click … and the list gets bigger with multi-componet on in edit mode so snapping and pivot point won’t be fast so it’s a compromise

I am happy to see this being worked on. Since I use a tablet I have LMB to select enabled by default.

The very first thing I noticed is that, when editing a mesh, I can no longer tweak vertices, edges or faces. I have to select them first, then press G to move.

To me this is not a desired workflow, it feels like a step back. 2.79 with LMB for select does not work this way either.

Please don’t implement this as being “industry standard”. Here is what Modo allows you to do:

Its essentially how LMB to select worked by default under 2.79

I love the work being done on 2.8 but please don’t slaughter LMB select like this. I would be very sad if it stays this way. Please reconsider. :slight_smile:

4 Likes

We could support this either by have a separate Tweak tool, as your video demonstrates, or by adding a Tweak setting to the Move tool for this behaviour.

1 Like

I am not against a tool or mode for tweaking. As you point out, that is how Modo does it, what Maya has, what Wings3D has, and so on. A key to toggle than mode on and off whilst I pan, zoom, and rotate around the model would be perfect.

3 Likes

Make that a button too. :v:

1 Like

The big issue with a tweak tool as “solution” is that you are forgetting this is a general approach to LMB. Not just something that is an issue when editing a mesh.

Open the dopesheet editor. I can no longer just clickdrag keys around.

Open the graph editor, I can no longer clickdrag keys to change timing (x) or value (y).

In fact I cant tweak the handles until I have selected them! So I have to click on a key, then click on the handle and only then can I, on the third click actually move that handle.

I am certain I can come up with an absolute ton of examples. Its a shockingly poor workflow.

I understand its all work in progress, the process is iterative and the developers are smart people. But I have to be honest, that behavior such as this is even considered an option terrifies me as a LMB user.

Please do not make LMB select worse than it was under 2.79. With the current approach that is actually what we are heading towards right now.

1 Like

Next question:

When will the Outliner follow industry standard and allow click and then shift+click to select everything between the first and last click?

Also, the fact that you can select multiple objects, but then only get the first object to change transforms from the object properties panel is still insanity, imo (especially with the default 2.8 theme making it incredibly difficult to see what’s “actually selected” instead of screw-you-its-only-highlighted). :stuck_out_tongue:

9 Likes

Indeed, in graph editor, LMB seems to be less efficient than RMB to detect hotspot of an handle.
But it just looks like an oblivion. The switch to LMB is changing a RMB press event to LMB click event.
They just have to fix that and use an LMB press event to fix that.

There is no box select as default for these editors, no active tools conflicts. So, there is no reason to worry about that.

You can get multiple objects affected by transforms changes using alt key like in 2.79.
Status bar should show that in future.
UI could also become more context sensitive and completely change tabs to show that multiple selection.
But it is cool to have panels related to active object properties when selection is made of several objects (copy/pasting from active object to selected ) , isn’t it ?

If they want that, sure. I don’t see all the angst with buttons, they can be hotkeyed for those that prefer it.

It’s amusing to watch all these issues pop up that blender’s normal workflow simply doesn’t have to deal with.

People said ambiguity wasn’t a big deal or factor, now they’re here figuring out workaround after workaround to deal with the context-based ambiguity.

2 Likes

Again, this type of workflow has formally been in Blender for less than a few days, give it time.

We didn’t declare Cycles a failure of an engine back when we played with the first builds and noticed all of the initial bugs along with the crash issues, so jumping to conclusions about a feature after its first few commits (in an attempt to prove a point) is not productive.

4 Likes

Thank you Ace Dragon for all the efforts on LMB. Now let’s propose a fix for sculpting mode on Grease pencil which is not done with LMB but using RMB only. Grease pencil sculpting interaction (thick lines, soft lines, grab…) only work on the wacom pen and mouse with RMB

1 Like

I think there has been a ton of misinformation about interface design.

And because of this there is a perception. I don’t necessarily think any of this will help anyone’s workflow. I don’t see yet how making everything left click factually helps anyone.

I define help as giving them a better workflow.

But it will drastically help Blender’s perception. A perception put there by misinformation. And it seems like - and very similar to Blender101 attempt- that developers have surrendered to perception and unevaluated conclusions. Luckily in the case if Blender 101 they seemed to finally abandon it for one reason or another and are doing what many of us suggested in the first place, to integrate it into standard Blender.

Here is a case where the correct reason - directly from Ton - was to make select right click for ergonomic reasons. This makes sense. And if you are a professional, you use Blender for long hours. And if you are like most professionals, you took on Blender at face value. And only after hours of use have you come to appreciate being “forced” to use Right Click.

If this has been lost I favor of a false perception, being “corrected” and people can “jump right in” in 5 minutes then I don’t see it as advancement.

But then again, when has winning a popularity contest done anyone any good?

Or maybe if you set Blender to left select, geeks can get more chicks?

Maybe that’s it. Forgive me, I am much too old to worry about that.

So disregard, carry on.

6 Likes

It always was a big whatever to me, I refuse to believe that any real artist would abandon a tool because it has one unusual button binding. Sounds more like an excuse for biased hate.

I am curious in trying out this new keymap, because when I am working for many hours, jumping back and forth between blender and unreal engine, I start to press blender hotkeys in unreal engine and vice versa.

2 Likes

For me, I think I would probably switch to LMB even though I’ve been RMB since 2006. However back when I first started learning Blender I wasn’t scared away by RMB. I just saw that left clicking didn’t select an object, tried right clicking and got used to it almost immediately, and I was 12 at the time. So anyone who has refused to learn Blender probably has other reasons beyond that.

5 Likes

(referring to Right Click select earlier in post)

Correct. You win the prize.

confirmed i used left click + drag with release confirm setting in properties to simulate something like maya’s tweak mode, but now it’s not working, there is a rectangle select instead mapped on lmb.

I started out my CG journey with XSI. In college, I learned Max and have used it for over a decade. I found Blender’s paradigm weird when I first started using it, but it grew on me. I eventually came to believe it was a better system… for ME.

See, that’s the thing. We can argue which is better until everyone is blue in the face, but at the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference. Now there are options, so we can all be happy.

I believe the Dutch have a saying for this:

Leef en laat leven

1 Like