Blender 2.8 User Interface/Usability

I agree with your first post.
But I disagree with the second one.

Readability is one thing. A goal that anybody have to reach. Nobody will complain that things are too readable.
But Direct Access to tools and properties is another goal to reach. Nobody will complain that UI is too fast.
If you don’t have to scroll and open a panel and subpanel to click on a value, but just to click on displayed value : you are working faster. It is not more complicated to understand.
So complaints about not being able to display lots of properties is as valid as complaints about unreadable settings.

You can not set properties in Blender and texts in web-browsers on same level.
Reading text is main business you have with a text. A text is ordered to be scanned from left to right, from top to bottom. Text is the reason why scrolling exists.
But it does not changed the fact that organizing a text into columns have always been considered as a help to read it efficiently.
Grouping of properties is done to be meaningful.
But having settings next to each over does not make a sentence.
Scrolling a properties editor from top to bottom does not develop a thesis or tell a story.

And when you are writing a text, you don’t scroll. You are using shortcuts to find occurrences of a word, to jump to previous/next word, to jump to a specific line, to jump to previous/next paragraph, to jump to a specific page…

You are also going back and forth when you are editing properties. You are not setting all values in one panel and then set-up next one and go-on like that.

So, in absence of shortcuts to cycle through panels, to call on top of editor a specific one, UI is slow.
And no matter how many shortcuts are added to properties editor.
Nothing will be faster for a specific task than having all required properties for it, directly accessible.

I am not against single column layout readability.
I am against the misconception that user need to read a label of a property to modify it.
If he creates a workspace and get used to it, having a property at a specific position of screen will become an habit like placement of keys on a keyboard.

I am not against subpanels and grid layout.
I am against the misconception that solves the problem for dense properties tabs. It does not.
Subpanels are adding a row per subpanel header, potentially taking away others interesting panels.
And it adds a click reducing direct access to settings.
Grid layout is not taking into account panels headers rows. It is making ridiculously stretched panels, made of 2 or 3 rows, between panels made of an arbitrary number of columns. It is less readable and less efficient than columns of panels using single column layout. This fact have nothing to do with the unfinished state of the feature. It is related to the concept of monopolizing a whole row of a large properties editor for a panel header. That is a waste of space.
It is the reason why User Preferences UI is just one panel with an hidden header and tabs in it.
If Tabs in User Preferences window would be panels, you will be complaining about an unbearable scrolling in this window like anybody.

I will concede that maybe we may need to think more about how we might be forcing to much into a single tab. We might simply need more tabs or a better arrangement of data in the tabs we have.

In my opinion, adding tabs with panels is not a solution. It adds one click to split same area of interest without removing other panels and subpanels extra-clicks.
I think that having an alternative floating window for render tab organized in 3 tabs (output/performance-quality/post-processing) and several columns like preferences would be more efficient.


Mock-up is not perfectly aligned. It is less readable but not unreadable. But access to many more settings is quicker, more direct.
A dedicating window for particles could probably benefit of some kind of layout 3 tabs (physics/display/textures-vertex groups) with several columns in each.

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3 posts were split to a new topic: Hiding with the H key is back

Hi
Sorry but… is Properties > Object > ViewportDisplay outdated now ?

I can not understand the relationship between Shading option and ViewportDisplay option.

Thx

Properties > Object > ViewportDisplay should per object, I don’t know if all the options are working at the moment.

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Regarding Indie’s second post. The point to be made here is that while we don’t want the various UI buttons and fields crammed together like in 2.4x, there are some smaller UI components like the checkboxes which can be packed more tightly due to how little space they use (ie. packed with fields or two in a row).

There is a balance to be a had with information density (not really high, but not super low either).

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5 posts were split to a new topic: Topbar Tool Settings

Standardization is the key to solve the top area of blender…

Found this on devtalk

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Love the expressionistic direction in this one.

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User changed timeline into Info editor.
Same way, he could hide header of Info editor and have more space for its content.

Now, that here is a new topbar with tabs, we are no more forced to have an info editor taking the whole width of window.
We could imagine addition of buttons to instantly convert a selection of last used operators into a macro, to go back to first line of an error message, search and or filters fields, etc…

That’s somewhat out of date, since the more recent versions only have one empty bar down there, not two.

Though even with that still remaining, I’m pretty sure they’re not gonna leave even that single, nearly empty space hog as-is. Everything’s constantly being jostled around and moved about, and a lot of the wasted space we’re seeing now is likely just placeholders meant to be filled later.

That’s why I’m so reticent to criticize some of the things concerning the UI at the moment. It’s all very much a work in progress.

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Yeah, I posted because it was fun to see the reaction.

The bar at the bottom could be removed easily and I hope they will remove it and put the info elsewhere.

OK !
But there are still weird changes, choices that should not be kept.
For instance, Keying popover in timeline. A popover made exclusively of buttons.

I can understand testing of attempt to reduce menus, UI separators, the wish to make a beautiful distribution in timeline header.
But seriously, buttons (that are not booleans) to add and remove keyframes inside a popover ?!!
These buttons could move to 3DView toolbar.
But active keying set field suits better in an header.
If active keying set is no more visible in timeline, this info had to be displayed elsewhere.
Now, that timeline is able to display keyframe type. Choice of this type goes to a popover ?!!

Start and End buttons in Playback popover are not booleans buttons, too.
IMO, Frame menu was more useful. It was communicating shortcuts for these items.
And its content was helpful timeline operators that user can no longer discover.
Automatic keyframing mode was set into this menu.

I think that removing sync mode and shrinking current frame/start/end space was a sufficient move to make timeline header less cluttered.
I think that even after restoring active keying set in header; there would be space to add frame rate.

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27 posts were merged into an existing topic: Understanding new layer render system, collection and workspace

7 posts were merged into an existing topic: Hiding with the H key is back

Using the daily builts i wonder why a lot of options are now horizontally distributed in 3d view, which looks ugly, makes the mouse travel longer ways and makes the ui looks more cluttered. Look at those resulting steps. Now its hard to tell to what those shading icons belong. If they are arranged as in 279 its much more clear at least for beginners imo.

We read from left to right so why those ugly big gaps between?

Is there a way to turn off this popup entirely?
image

If it doesn’t already, perhaps the popovers should collapse into a small handle attached to the nearest window edge (but prioritizing the top and bottom ones)?

It might be a simple solution to get them out of the way temporarily when they are not needed.

I’d rather never see it. Once the new tool properties becomes functional, there’s no need for this panel for me…
*I’m waiting for this:

I like my viewport as clean as possible.
Hope it gets sorted out.

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Concerning the distribution on the header/footer bar, I’d consider that decent UI design. It gives you a clear division between the three different categories you have immediate access to in the viewport, and it’s collapsible, so you’ll still have that division no matter how large or small your window is.