Blender 2.8 Viewport Performance


(Pitiwazou) #151

You can post on the doc :wink:


(English is not my native language) #152

Ok, added. Only in English.


(Pitiwazou) #153

I’ll make the translation :wink:


(0o00o0oo) #154

Thanks, @pitiwazou!


(JustinBarrett) #155

I’m not really whining, merely expressing my opinions.


#156

Blender 2.8 needs at least a year to stabilize so the transition to Vulkan won’t start probably before 2020. But the devs have already said they are considering it, so it’s an inevitability. Because of the extend of the rewrite required to remove OpenGL it will take several versions to get there. But no Blender cannot afford to maintain 2 APIs, currently it does not have the development team size required for such maintenance. So OpenGL will have to meet the fate of BI and not BGE (which is preparing for a come back).

So by the time Vulkan Eevee is released will require a 8 year old computer like Eevee does now with OpenGL 3.3. Similarly requirements but with much higher boost in performance. Thus older hardware is not the issue here.


(stargeizer) #157

Also, Vulkan support requires a card more modern than open GL 3.3 requirements are:

This means:

  • nvidia GXX 600 minimum, it will be slow. but useable.
  • AMD 7730 as minimum (both desktop and mobile parts)
  • AMD Apus: E1-2000 and A4-5000 minimum
  • intel in linux from the HD3000 done in software so SLOW, and in windows from HD4000 but partial. These processors/graphics series won’t be updated anymore so if you want updated drivers, the minimum is skylake parts (intel I3/5/7-6000).

Mac OSX users are out of luck, since Apple is not going to support Vulkan directly (these users will need to use moltenVK with translates vulkan to metal.), or wait to Blender devs to write a Metal Backend for osx users. Good luck with that, given how apple is hostile to develpers i’ve seen stories of developers tend to ragequit the platform quite badly.

But then again, surprises can come anytime.


#158

There is already MoltenVK that Valve is using for DOTA 2 on MacOS, it runs Vulkan on top of Metal. So there is no need for Apple to support Vulkan actively. Plus the design of Vulkan is that so it does not depend on Apple, anyone can make a Mac port. Its just as usual everyone expects to do the work, just because.

The point is simple “you want more performance ? Cool, drop OpenGL” . It’s not as if Blender has an option on this, Vulkan is the only current valid choice, unless a new sexy technology comes around. Vulkan is literally already everywhere and not even Khronos cares about OpenGL anymore and they are the ones that made it.

People on old hardware make also for a tiny minority of users, you can see this in the Valve surveys for gamers. 3d artists are far more reliant on powerful hardware than even gamers. Blender used to ephasize older hardware more but back then we did not have super powerful GPUs as we do nowdays and competitions with ultra realistic game engines with real rendering that puts even off line renders to shame.

Even if your hardware supports the 8 year technology that Blender 2.8 demands to even allow you to open the application. Using it will be a world of pain if your setup is older than 6 years old. So in the end, old hardware bites the dust. Plus any hardware will become old at some point anyway. You either upgrade or compromise with old Blender versions which can be super useful too.


(cet77) #159

Yeah… No problems with opinions. :slight_smile: But my post is still valid tho… :slight_smile: We know for a fact that Ton & co wants blender to be competitive, and fast, so they will naturally look into things like speed and effectivity when they can. :slight_smile: First things first maybe…


(Ace Dragon) #160

When it comes to making sure Blender can keep running on the Mac. There could be the argument that Apple is trying to upgrade standards and push older tech. to obsolescence too quickly.

The faster the rate, the slower you would see software in general get developed (because more time is spent on preserving compatibility and cleaning out old code, meaning less time on features and enhancements). This hits FOSS like Blender a bit harder because the organizations can’t just add a bunch of paid developers to get it done.

To note, this is a different case than say, giving 32-bit the boot (as the transition time has been long enough that many applications with active development is ready for it).


(cekuhnen) #161

I talked with some other people involved in software design and it seems they all look at openGL as a good but just old tool and see in Vulkan a new path since it is cross platform.


(JustinBarrett) #162

This makes the most sense to me…it’s hard for people(devs) to gauge it’s viability though since it is still fairly young(only a couple years)…it’s just hard to tell if it will “stick” for the next ten years or not…I’m guessing that it will stick and it seems like many are already adopting it.

my opinion is to use it.

side not I’m pretty sure metal and vulcan are, at their core, the same exact thing.


(English is not my native language) #163

Hi.
Regarding the question about Mesh Light that someone did. Bloom is just an effect, it does not make Mesh Lights emit light really. Mesh Light are not “Lights”. I mean, they are lights but they are not Lamps ( “Lamp” has been renamed to “Light” recently, excuse me if this makes the explanation confusing). Well, therefore for an object to receive the light that Mesh Lights emit, the object must be within an “Irradiance Volume”, and Bake Indirect Lighting with each change of Strength in Emission is needed.
Bake Irradiance Volume may not be “light” (I mean, it can be heavy and take time depending on the resolution and scene :grinning: )


(0o00o0oo) #164

@pitiwazou Hey, just wanted to ask if you know if Clement will be looking at the new questions and answer them.


(Pitiwazou) #165

I’ll send him a mp, but there are not so much new questions.


(0o00o0oo) #166

Oh, okay, maybe you’re waiting for a bigger collection of questions. Perhaps put it on a separate thread or something where people can see it easier to pose questions for it?


(English is not my native language) #167

I agree, but questions should be discussed before in the forum, and only ask those questions to which we do not find answers among users of the forum. It is not the idea of making Clément waste time with bugs reports or personalized technical support in that questionnaire.


(0o00o0oo) #168

Right, agreed.


(Thornydre) #169

I have a question then, don’t know if it fits in the form :
What passes will be supported by EEVEE ?


(English is not my native language) #170

I have reconsidered what I said above. It is not my intention that someone should act as a censor of what users should ask. Just recommend using common sense and not using the questionnaire for bugs report.

So @Thornydre, just ask your question in questionnaire.