Blender Enterprise/Business Edition?

General Forums Blender and CG Discussions
1

Having used blender for a few months now, I’ve come to enjoy the interface and its design choices. For instance, having no new windows pop up makes blender the easiest application to run fierce focus-stealing-prevention. I kind of wish now that all my apps (read : gimp, open office, opera, firefox) would eliminate open/save dialog pop-ups in the same way. I guess most of the industry isn’t used to the idea yet, and it’d be a little tricky to implement.

One of the biggest questions I have tho, and I’m sure I’m not the only one, pertains to why Blender doesn’t have widespread pressense yet, and I think I know the answer; no studio support. I mean, we all know about the Spider-man 2 animated storyboards and Plumeferos, but no movie studio has seriously commited to it. And I have a clue as to why.

Blender has some FANTASTIC programmers, and if the app has nothing, it has some rock-hard stability. I mean, compared to other apps I’ve used (XSI, Maya, Lightwave), Blender is amazingly stable. The only time I’ve experienced nasty crashes were on CVS builds, and most of those were fixed or diminished within days.

However, “it’s really stable” doesn’t sell software to large businesses. What does tho, is “there’s a support edition and it integrates well into the workflow”. Blender’s already doing a good job about the latter (what with all the exporters/importers), now it just needs to solve the former. How, tho?

Okay, here’s where I’m not sure if the infastructure would allow it. There’d have to be some time set aside to even attempt this, and it’d be a dramatic shift in how blender is run. Possible.

How about a Blender Professional Edition?

The code wouldn’t change. The only difference between Blender on the website and Blender Professional Edition is a price (something like one to six grand) and a support line. This line would be there for technical problems and (maybe?) feature requests.

Once again, I’m not really sure if the programming core team to this wonderful app would have the time or patience to deal with such a system, I’m just putting it out there.

If it were implemented, tho, it could have a lot of positive ramifications. First, Blender could have a pressense in major businesses. Second, what few bugs get missed in a major release could get patched up quickly. Third, the blender foundation could be better funded.

I’m sure there’s problems involved in such a system. e.g. who gets paid (do programmers who patch post-release bugs get paid more than those who worked up to release?), whether it’d really be a good thing (some open source projects with paid development have had the problem of development ceasing with the end of payment). However, as a non-profit organization, blender foundation would have a unique situation among other software companies where you’d know that all the money spent would go directly to the programmers or the foundation’s infastructure.

Heck, it might even be able to pay for another movie project.

Just a thought, really.

2

sounds interesting, but what about the code that was made stating that Blender is completely free? wouldn’t that violate the liscence?

I dunno sounds good though if it could work

3

No, I forget where it mentions it, but it’s free as in speech, not free as in beer. Of course, free as in speech does mean here that it’s also free as in beer, but it also means you’re free to sell it.

4

You are free to sell it but also in that case you have to share the code.

5

dont sell the blender, sell the support.

say to the companies you can have as many seats (liceneses) as you like, but if you want support you can pay this (set fee or something?) and get access to technical support, with money off that we could probably run a call centre and pay a few devs. for perminant programming/ feature requests.

the tech. agents would be trained in blender and other tools and how to intergrate them and also how to troubleshoot issues.

im not trying to change your idea, just given input :slight_smile:

im working for apple tech. support at the moment so if you need any input, just ask :cool:

6

Shoulda cleared that up; I meant that the only difference, 100%, between Blender and Blender Enterprise would be the support contract.

Fixes would be added back to the main blender source. This is, however, where things would get tricky.

Obviously no company is going to use Blender CVS, as its not designed to be a stable release. So the problem in fixing bugs lies in that the bug is probably already fixed in CVS.

Maybe this would work for a pipeline?

  • Customer reports bug to techncial line
  • Bug forwarded to prorgrammer in charge of section
  • Programmer fixes it, updates Blender CVS; if Blender CVS already has a fix, skip to :
  • Programmer backports fix to source of current Blender Stable for customer
  • Fixed Blender Stable compiled and shipped/emailed/download link sent to company, along with new source (by keeping its own source, there’s no surprises in changes for a company).

Now mind you, not only would this increase Blender’s strength overall, but it’d also put it in a unique support position that most 3D apps can’t or don’t match. (there’s bugs Maya has to this day that’ve been there since 6.5 or even earlier.)

However, I’m going to state that IANAP (I’m not a programmer) and do not know the realistic feasibility of such an undertaking by blender foundation.

Like I said, I’m just putting it out there.

P.S. Another cool idea would be implementing feature request contracts, that would essentially augment the Google Sumer of Code. A company could post a contract up for a feature it needs, and if a programmer can step up, the code gets added to Blender under GPL and the programmer is paid the contract fee, split between him and BF. It’d be similar to the situation Maya had when they designed their weather/ocean system for The Perfect Storm.

P.P.S. Daniel, just note that your reply hadn’t gone up yet when I wrote this. :wink:

7

If anything, Spiderman 2 sent the wrong message. “Blender’s only good for animatics, we prefer other tools for the real stuff”. The industry needs to see, repeatedly and clearly, that Blender is a production level tool.

Before the Foundation started selling a tech support plan, possibly by signing in a support services company to do it (such as Sykes), Blender would have to be far more popular and sound like the great idea it is.

Before the sell comes the fame. For this, Blender needs propaganda, and it needs a plan – we would need Blender to start showing up in the relevant media. There’s certainly industrial-grade talent in the Gallery, sure, but we would need to show it off in 3DWorld, ComputerArts, etc…

/me dreams of Elephants Dream, Ideality and Plumiferos showing in prime-time spots in CBS and the BBC.

8

Like Daniel8488 said, there’s no need to sell the app. You just sell a support contract, and then support it.

The simplest way to do this would be to create an invite-only chat line or channel, then charge for access. Devs or other experts hang out there 24/7 answering questions, then collect their checks.

The hard part about that right now is the current feedback model for the devs. Anyone can jump on blendercoders irc channel and point out some kind of glaring bug. Odds are, it will be fixed within minutes without anyone paying a cent.

The problem arises then if a couple of people decide to set up a pay-channel. Lets say their customer logs on and has a certain problem. The people running the channel then pop into blendercoders and point out the problem. The devs in blendercoders know what’s going on, and that the person is getting to paid to try to get something fixed. That’s not going to bother everyone, but it would certainly bother a substantial portion of the devs.

Of course, most of the requests to such a service would be directly answerable, such as “how do i do this?” or “what’s the workaround for that?”, and all of that would be fine.

It’s not a bad idea, but until there’s a large enough team of devs and experts that they could do this without really splitting the dev community, I think it could be harmful.

That said, if someone’s willing to shell out $10k a year, I’ll be the first one to hang out in a chat channel for them!

9

well im planning on setting up a blender training program, i dont want to just concentrate on modeling/ texturing/ animation though. well i will teach that (along with other instructors), but i also want to teach topics like how to intergrate blender into pipelines, how to customize the interfaces for diffrent jobs and in general how to make blender a kick ass tool in the pipeline :slight_smile:

that was kind of off topic, but if i did that we would a have some blender pro’s who would be trained in setting blender up for pipelines.

‘hello, thanks for calling blender techinical support’ :smiley:

10

i dont want to just concentrate on modeling/ texturing/ animation though

Hey, but don’t reject a juicy offer to teach, say, animation if they ask.

11

ill would like to make them the core, but also incorporate more than just modeling/ animation/ texture etc. Make the student feel like a master of the whole tool and methods of getting the job done :slight_smile:

12

A Blender Enterprise Edition should include many examples, guides, videotutorials (like in Maya Learning Edition), rigged characters like Ludwig; cool scenes (like a character speaking, with lip sync), libraries with textures, materials, etc. This CD / DVD should be available also for free or for a very low cost, but without tech support.

The Blender code must be the same in both editions.

13

There is no need to make a different “Edition” of Blender. I really don’t see how that’s necessary to any successful business model.

14

I think there needs to be a Blender Home Basic Edition, Blender Home Premium Edition, Blender Business Edition, Blender Professional Edition, Blender Ultimate Edition, Blender Enterprise Edition and a limited Blender Signed Edition by Ton Roosendaal.

I’m with harkyman on this. Why do you need 20 different editions to make Blender successful?

Does it make Microsoft successful? Hell no, they’re only successful because they’ve got a killing marketing machine and money to fuel it.

15

Installed base helps the marketing machine a lot. Each of their OSs rides in the momentum of the previous one. The don’t create markets; that’s a myth.

16

Patience Blenderheads, look back and marvel at what has been achieved since the sources were freed. Also Studios DO know about Blender I am sure, as Ton and others have realised, education is the key. Once more professional training is available, userbase will follow. When contracts get lost to companies using Blender because of the cost savings and availability, things will change. Bread and butter animation, not the top cutting edge stuff, can be done in Blender by small studios anywhere in the world.

17

Roy : The problem comes down to this :
The software cost-saving in Blender is irrelevant to any game/advertising/film company.
A graphical artist makes anywhere from 27k (low end) - 45k (mid-level) to +85k (high level) a year.

This is why professional video cards used to run for several thousand dollars. Because you’d buy one a year and if it made your employee 10% faster than the last piece of hardware it payed for itself. This is why Maya can cost six grand (it used to cost a whole lot more than that), or why a piece of software like that can require the latest hardware for features that worked fine with older silicon in earlier verisons (e.g. High-Quality Rendering mode in the previously mentioned Maya).

When I mentioned an Enterprise “Edition”, I really only meant a support contract. I don’t mean a nice chat room, I mean a phone number you can call and get a human being on the other end who can solve your problem during crunch time.

The thing is, that compared to any other 3D app I’ve ever used, Blender’s been, for me at least, pretty rock f***ing solid in stability. What I’ve concluded from that is (and of course, I’m not a programmer or a high-end 3D artist, so take all of this with a grain of salt) that a support contract for blender, aside from paying the overhead for a tech support line and some improved learning materials, would mostly get Blender’s foot in the door. It’s a carrot for businesses and the folks in charge of their budget. “I really like Blender and it’s free” doesn’t hold as much sway for the IT department and your boss as “I really like Blender, and their support contract’s pretty cheap.”

That stability would become obscenely apparent as soon as Blender gets some use in a real environment. Not crashing randomly, not having to call a tech for workarounds, and a lack of stupid bugs (like cough geometry mirroring being broken for 2 versions in a row) would become really apparently, really quickly.

Support contracts could do wonders for the blender foundation if the “enterprise/business” program was properly managed. Heck, Blender could augment the Summer of Code with their own grants and maybe even get a real, full-length Project Orange-style feature out.

…

… that and us Blender using folks could have more leeway in finding work :wink: (You KNEW there was an agenda here)

18

False. It’s very attractive to small shops, local television production, and indies (an arguably bigger market than larger media companies). If it weren’t, then there would be absolutely no interest outside of the Blender community in the workshops that I hold and the DVD’s that I and other people have been producing.

Education, training, and consulting are the way to go. There are a number of us making steps in this regard, both with and independent of the Blender Foundation. It takes some time to set up and there are bound to be headaches and challenges along the way. However, this is the groundwork that needs to get laid to get a viable support system for Blender established. Support contracts are nothing if you don’t have the people and resources to fulfill them.

19

Blender isn’t widely used commercially because until very recently its capabilities were not adequate to the task. ED brought much of the needed capabilities and knocked off most of the extremely rough edges. Each major release has been narrowing the gap between commercial offerings and Blender. Professionals have started looking to integrate Blender into their pipeline and to use it to replace parts of their pipeline (especially custom code that they have had to maintain themselves). Blender 2.40 and 2.42 and the publicity surrounding ED resulted in very serious looks at Blender. Blender 2.43s improvements will again result in major consideration.

Biggest thing holding back adoption after 2.43 will be 1) lack of adequate documentation and 2) that it is still challenging to round trip assets between Blender and other parts of a pipeline. Harkyman and others are doing excellent work fixing problem 1. ideasman as well as other scripters are working on addressing 2 (in particular the work of the Collada team is rather important to that effort).

LetterRip

20

Bad analogy. Comparing the idea to Red Hat’s business model would make more sense.

Secondly… I have a hard time believing that it would be possible to create a tech support line better than simply posting a question here!