Blender for Adobe Flash Stage 3D?

For those of you who didnt know yet the Flash player 11 supports native 3D.
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer.html

Would it be possible to use Blender in the (near) future as an authoring environment for creating interactive Flash 3D content? If Blender was capable to create games and interactive content that could be published through Flash that would definitely get me psyched to using the Blender game tools.

I’ve been looking at Unity as tool for creating interactive 3D content, mainly because of the many platforms it supports and their webplayer. But if Blender could publish to Flash the choice would be simple.

Unity already has tools in the making to support Flash Stage 3D, so that route can always be taken.

Apparently Adobe is working on their own Open Source tools for creating 3D content in Flash.
“Proscenium is the upcoming Adobe open source scene graph for creating 3D games and content for Stage 3D.”

Seeing as these tools are Open Source would that mean that there’s hope for Blender to be able to support Flash Stage 3D, legally I mean?

That’s a great idea and I think this is indeed just a matter of time, since a developer gets his hands on developing a Flash-SWF-Exporter for Blender. I’d guess, that this could be a project for the Google Summer of Code 2012.

First of all, this integration has to prove inside of Unity. The Video looks promising, let’s see how it develops.

Seeing as these tools are Open Source would that mean that there’s hope for Blender to be able to support Flash Stage 3D, legally I mean?

Maybe, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the license was such where Adobe can retain general control of its development which may or may not be compatible with the GPL, also noting this also likely makes use of some of their proprietary technology.

Would using WebGL as an alternative work better in that regard?

I doubt anyone will ever do this, since flash is a dying tech. that will be obsolet with html5 integrated in all major browsers (most of html5 is already implemented).

Thats jumping the gun a bit.

I havent seen any examples of HTML 5 being able to produce the 3D graphics seen in the Flash examples. When it comes to Flash video being the dominant video format I’m sure those days are over. HTML 5 is promising, but a full replacement for all the features that Flash has to offer, well I dont see it happening just yet.

The implementation in Flash by the way, would make it possible to create games on mobile devices, not just web content.

Well if anything, legal issues would be the thing to kill any attempt to make Blender connect to Flash.

I’m not familiar with all the possibilities that WebGL has to offer. If there is an artist friendly authoring environment like Unity or Blender’s game-engine available for it I’m sure to give it a try.

I saw where the Unreal Engine 3 has been “tied in” to run on Flash 11 Stage 3D.

…the Unreal Engine will leverage the new Flash Player’s Stage 3D APIs to enable browser games with graphics previously seen only on locally installed games.

Some interesting possibilities. But I would rather see Blender leveraged with something a tad less proprietary than flash, but you gotta love the broad & established userbase that flash enjoys. A GSOC project in this direction (getting blender content available to a broad web / mobile audience) would be a godsend!

Unreal and Flash 3D, thats a dream come true.

I also noticed this: http://www.ambiera.com/coppercube/ apparently Coppercube provides an artist friendly environment for authoring both Flash 3D and WebGL. I’m still biased towards Unity at the moment, but it seems a lot of developers are getting on the bandwagon. I really hope Blender will too.

If Blender manages to provide a powerful editor for WebGL that would be fine as well. Just being able to create interactive 3D content from Blender to the web and maybe mobile devices would be awesome.

Alternativa 3d collada viewer http://editor.alternativaplatform.com/ have a test play with it. Or use Unity export to flash when it comes or …gsoc

I think its a matter of time, really, unless adobe changes attitude. I mean if simple flash video can overheat a cpu and if it the source of most browser crashes what will happen if you add 3d graphics in the equation. I dont know , 3d and flash seem like a very bad idea. The last time I checked true webgl was not fast enough but I think this is a matter of time till it changes , javascript also was crawling slow but with chromes compile to c converter it becomes blazzing fast. There are ways to make html5 blazzing fast as there are ways to make flash more stable and faster.

If your competitors start making faster and more reliable websites with Html5 you are going to get stuck in flash just because its the popular choice, I think not. So its a question who is going to achieve that goal first.

And we not should forget that HTML5 has the active support (contributes code) of Apple , its not exactly an easy to predict race, while adobe might be huge but it does not seem able to see where the future is going.

3d inside the browser by the way is not big deal, it has been done before . Even a plugin existed that could embed blender game engine to the browser. If you think about it , the term web tool is misleading for flash or webgl or all other 3d plugins . In most cases any 3d processing takes place offline, and that is why it strains the user’s CPU , so in the end its nothing diffirent from opening a 3d app from your computer, it may see online , or web only but in the end it has little to do with the web.

If you look around you will find tons of plugins that can do 3d inside a browser.

And by the way, java can do this too .

-1 for flash just for the simple reason that it only works good on Windows platforms. If I’m not mistaken molehill for example is only accelerated on Windows platform. On OSX you just get a software renderer. And if the AIR support on linux may be an indication, it doesn’t seem very hopeful for this platform.

I have a beefy pc for rendering using Windows and a macbook pro (i5) for development work. Let me say this. From the moment that something flash is running the remaining battery indication on my mac drops so fast it makes your head spin. We are not talking about minutes, but hours… . What works good on my PC, hogs my CPU on the mac. Sometimes even the most simple of animations.

It is really low quality hardware and personally I don’t wonder people don’t want it on their mobile devices. I think the autonomy of those thing would drop really fast just by enabling flash.

What makes Flash interesting I believe is not so much whats going on under the hood, but the artist friendly environment it offers. There’s more to Flash then being simply “the popular choice”, its a tool for artist to create media rich websites that would otherwise require a lot more programming, and a lot more time. Of course there are other technologies that can do the same thing or even better, but that doesnt mean its as easy to use or as accessible as Flash. The majority of artists using Flash use Flash because it is an easy and fast tool to build web content. These artists wont flock to HTML 5 and leave Flash in the dust unless a tool similar to Flash will allow them to build the same web content using HTML 5 or WebGL. If such a tool exist I will be the first to migrate.

Most of this “Flash is dead” discussion is regurgitated Internet rumor. I believe there is an opportunity for Blender to support Flash 3D and that it would move Blender forward, at specially the game-enigine toolset. A GSOC project would be a good way to do it.

I agree that “flash is dead” is pretty much non sense, its still by far the most popular choice. Pesonally , I dont care about 3d in web, even for fancy graphics, i prefer my websites, static, super fast to load, and super light for my cpu. On the other hand you should not forget the huge success html5 had as a replacement to flash for youtube video playback, in both speed, reliability and cpu used. Ease of use of the tools is of course an issue , but really i dont see a big problem with that, there are tons of companies out there that will want to market a product that can export 3d to hmtl5, even blender could do this, its python api is more than capable.

I acknowledge that video for the web will no longer be Flash Video dominant, there’s no question in my mind about that.

If Blender can become an authoring environment for HTML 5 or WebGL that would great too, no plugin required. The interest I have in Flash is strictly for its authoring environment and as a platform for publishing content for the web and mobile devices.

Blender used to have its own web-player but that died long ago. The other option would be Unity, it is however a different authoring environment from Blender’s game engine that will take more time to learn. Also Unity’s webplayer is not as common as the Flash player. The other option would be CopperCube as it can create interactive WebGL content. I’m sure there are other tools as wel but I wont list them all.

A question have you ever used flash on a mobile device ? It’s a nightmare.

If adobe doesn’t drastically changes it ways I am certain that it will die off. As certain as I am that HTML5 authoring tools will arise at some point in time.

Are you referring to creating Apps for the Android Market and the Apple App Store? Or simply playing an SWF on Android? Or even actually working in Flash on a mobile device, because I dont believe that is actually possible.

To clarify, my interest in Flash is in publishing apps to mobile devices. Not working in Flash on a tablet.

I seen no reason why Flash and HTML 5 cant both be successful. Even so, I wouldn’t be surprised if Adobe was the first to introduce a new HTML 5 authoring tool. Either that or expand Dreamweaver’s tools to accommodate.

i don’t think flash will have a very bright future. even windows 8 won’t support the flash plugin in the new metro gui.

i really dislike the flash plugin. it’s no open technology, it’s very unsafe and unstable…

flash still has some advantages but i think webgl + javascript or dart (google unveiled it today) + audio api + mouse locking and fullscreen api + native client + webcl and so on will soon be much better or at least very competitive.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/edge/

:slight_smile:

I knew it.

I’m the prognosticator of prognosticators. :stuck_out_tongue:

And yet Android advertised with the fact that it does support Flash.

Flash itself is not open but “Proscenium” wil be Open Source.
“Proscenium is the upcoming Adobe open source scene graph for creating 3D games and content for Stage 3D.”http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/proscenium/

The introduction of new technology does not default into the inevitable end of Flash, it just means there will be more competition and more choice for us artist. :stuck_out_tongue:

Time will tell how well Flash will do, but I don’t think it will be decided overnight.

I believe that supporting Stage 3D in Blender will resurrect Blenders game tools and attract a lot of attention from both artist and developers. The problem as I see it with Blenders game tools (aside from any technical issues there may be) was: how to publish the content. You can create an executable but you have to download it first. Having your content run in a browser or even better create apps for mobile devices, opens doors. And supporting Flash can do that.