By comparison, in Java 7/C# you would write something like
List<Main> mains = new ArrayList<Main>();
for (Main m : mains) {
doStuff(m);
}
In Java 8 with lambdas (which were inspired by C# lambdas)
List<Main> mains = new ArrayList<Main>();
mains.forEach((m) -> doStuff(m));
which is as compact as you could possibly do.
It is some time since I stopped following Boost but I think that it provides support for some kind for lambdas.
The bad C code examples are not bad C code, they are the only way you can emulate what overloading and templating provide you out of the box when use languages more powerful than a portable assembler.
Yet you have no problem accusing others of trolling when reading opinions that you choose to take personal. So without you playing along with this hypothetical topic, I’m still genuinely interested: from what perspective do you follow Blender’s development now? As a programmer or an artist?
Being free open source software, the community is just as much part of Blender as the product itself. My point was that Blender could reach a point, where you personally feel primarily satisfied with what and how the software works for you, and there will still be people who find it unusable or inferior.
The point I was trying to make exactly. Having no great knowledge or expertise in programming languages myself, I can only trust that those who are, know what they are doing and why in a given context. I use the word “trust” because I don’t believe I can build the expertise to “think for myself” in this matter. It’s not about who’s wrong or right, but authority does weigh more when basing an opinion on something, however unfortunate that may be.
The fallacy in what you say is that the person who is satisfied with where it is now DOES NOT HAVE TO UPGRADE past that point, since they are fulfilled by whatever version they are using. In the same vein, those who thought 2.49 was good enough for them STILL USE IT. Its not consistent then to worry about or try to shut up those who are actually interested in FURTHER DEVELOPMENT and or the perfection of the software.
What’s utterly irrational is how you are trying to normalize the expectation of unpolished development. By your own reasoning you shouldnt care about what people “want” or “expect” or even push for since you are “happy and content” with whatever version you are using now. So stay consistent or dont offer such fallacy driven commentary.
Don’t forget Art of Illusion, another 3D FOSS project that was written in Java which has since largely died off. Back in the day it actually had features that Blender didn’t have like node-based texturing and true global illumination, but it doesn’t really matter anymore as it’s no longer developed much and Blender is now universally superior.
Also, it’s the same with FOSS game engines written in Java, the Jmonkey engine for instance hasn’t been able to accrue the same development rate over a period of years that the Unreal 4 engine was able to get in a couple of months (and it’s considered among the best available for FOSS when it comes to standalone engines).
So yes, there seems to be no correlation at all between the popularity of a programming language and the development rate of respective FOSS applications, and as such makes this a very good point.
@SaintHaven
It’s not about resting on laurels. If you can accomplish your job with the status quo, every consequent feature addition is just a bonus - a nice helpful bonus no doubt - but not something that prevented you to do your job before. I actually don’t care that people push for features, what bothers me is that they (by now a bunch of usual suspects) push so much in every thread possible, that it essentially becomes whining. It bothers me to be labeled a fanboy, because I manage to select with RMB. It bothers me that a whole program gets disregarded over a few subjective features and all existing users just don’t get it.
I also said “primarily satisfied”. Of course Blender is not perfect, no software is. I don’t have grand illusions that because I donate, that my request should be listened to, or keep pointing out that the Blender compositer is unusable because I as a compositer have to use Nuke, and that people who do are wrong. I’m willing to stay quiet. By now we all get your position, so it would be pleasant if you did the same, or at least took that energy and direct it to being more active in the actual development process.
So in otherwords you accept the fallacy, make a gross over exaggeration on the amount of “whining” you think you see, and then proceed to whine about it? Have you considered, even remotely, that your whining about the opinions of others is far more common? The irony here is that your gross over exaggeration of what people say and how often they “say it”, really only dates back to the criticism some had over Gooseberry. IF it bothers you so much though, to the point where you need to be equally if not more vocal about it…
Then use common sense and “block” users whose post bother you so much. Think about that…magically all those post you DONT like to see just go away. Is that so hard for you to do? Do you feel exempt from such actions? It would, in retrospect, take far less time to put someone on ignore than to continue ranting about what a “few people” say that you dont like.
As for development process… you shouldnt assume to know where I am and am not present on that front. Anyone who can make use of the search function though can see I have been anything but a mere “bystander”. But hey, whatever you want to believe is fine with me. I do advise though you try not to keep making it personal. Ignore those you are bothered by, stop trying to censor or diminish opinion you dont like, and learn to accept that not everyone is in the same boat as you. Again, put my post (which have been scarce of late) on ignore and take a break at getting bend out of shape. Its for the best really.
Sometimes it feels like languages can be too compact which makes them actually harder to read. Besides it doesn’t really matter if something can be expressed in shorter way, because the actual writing of source code is the easiest part of programming.
Incorrect. I have no problem accusing others of trolling when reading comments directed at specific individuals with the intention of causing a negative reaction. There was no need for you to pick out the forum participants you did to make your point. Given past reactions you have had and the vehemence at which you react to my commenting in pretty much every thread we are both commenting in at the same time - I am quite happy to call that trolling.
Both.
If that was truly your intent, I’d suggest you could easily have made it without referring to anyone in particular (just as you have above). You might find that people give a little more credibility to such a non-targeted post.
On the point above, however, I disagree. Some members of the community are as much a part of “Blender” as the product. Others, clearly, are not. I would not consider SaintHaven (or myself for that matter) a part of Blender, though we are clearly a part of the Blender community. I’m willing to consider the core developers part of Blender, but I simply don’t buy the fact that because the software is open source the users are somehow part of the package itself. With the exception of rare exemplary artists, the majority of us could decide not to use Blender and no-one would notice.
However, if you feel as strongly as you do about your claim as you appear, I’d suggest bringing it to the attention of those that would classify the community part of Blender as just “noise”.
Reading this type of exchange here, do we actually have a concrete definition of what constitutes someone as a “Blender fanboy” anymore?
It seems to me like the definition in various cases has devolved into “anyone who disagrees with even one point brought by a professional software user regarding the program”, thereby becoming very counter-intuitive for general constructive or productive discussion. The criteria of what constitutes a ‘noise maker’ seems to be heading in that same direction as well.
I agree. Most of these discussion seem to dissolve into noise maker vs fanboy accusations. There are always these half sarcastic remark from one side of the other that will derail threads. Can’t we just stop doing that?
FWIW, I never accused him of being a fanboy. I simply pointed out that making his accusations personal was trolling, given it was unrequired to make his point. I make a point to differentiate fanboy behaviour from trolling because, in a majority of cases, the fanboys are not deliberately seeking a negative response.
If you think this is about “professionals” vs “fanboys”, I suggest you read the exchange again. I never once referred to either nor was it my intent to imply anything of the sort.
I wasn’t meaning you in particular, I was meaning the type of exchange that become common in these threads, we already have one example where there’s an alleged notion that someone doesn’t want to hear ‘inconvenient truths’ about Blender.
I’m also saying that we need concrete definitions of the two terms that will prevent abuse in their use when it comes to arguments and discussion in general. A fanboy for instance would be someone who refuses to acknowledge that there’s other apps. with more functionality and tools than Blender while trying to justify current issues with the tools it has (not saying this would be part of the final definition though).
My apologies. I read “this type of exchange here” as referring to the previous exchange before the post (i.e. that of san & I). If you weren’t referring to that, I think we’re all good
Eh, why is it that 3+ pages in, and people are accusing each other & quibbling?
(Its rhetorical question, but please resist urge).
Also, Unless its obvious trolling I try not moderate threads I have own comments in.
Since its on topic (and fun to speculate ), heres my Blender in 10 years predictions.
Steady overall improvement (more than past 10 years!).
More commercial involvement (companies hiring for improvements or employing devs).
Will run on tablets (Android laptops or similar…) and some users will have this as their primary systems.
Will have an alternative to Python for writing faster addons.
No significant change in language use, still mostly written in C (with some C++ and Python.
And some cynical ones!
Some users will still be complaining about the UI.
Some users will think Blender didn’t improve much in the previous 10 years.
All things considered these are pretty conservative predictions, and regarding Android we’re already very close to running on tablets, Since we had increased activity & commercial involvement so… these predictions aren’t really that insightful!
