blender vs. art of illusion (& 3d procedural grass?)

hey all - what do you know about blender vs art of illusion?

here’s a cool archi-viz rendering
http://www.friendlyskies.net/aoiforum/viewtopic.php?id=275
http://www.friendlyskies.net/aoiforum/viewtopic.php?id=258

the guy says he did the grass with…procedurals??? can we do that in blender? if so how - that would be SUCH a time saver!!! (for renderings)

(whatever the deal is they need to update their gallery in sourceforge cuz it stiiiiiiiinks)

here’s another link…

how do they do that?

http://friendlyskies.net/aoiforum/viewtopic.php?id=208

hey, if those are the best pictures that AoI has to offer (I’m talking about the ones in the Art Gallery), it ain’t got nothing on blender! If you don’t believe me, look in the Finished Projects forum.

I’ve been using blender for only a couple of months now, and I can do some amazing renders and animations that are very realistic. Blender is also very powerful. Scripting, plug-ins, game engine, animations, compositing, and probably some other things I don’t know about! It’s amazing, really.

Blender grows faster than the documentation can keep up with, which is the only problem I’ve found with Blender.

lol. nice ‘crit’ — so does anyone know how we can do the procedural 3d grass thing in blender?

If you want to do it with procedural textures, it can be done with a noise texture as a displacement map, but you’ll need to subdivide the mesh a lot. Maybe a better method is with particles:
https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58628&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

or with dupliverts:
https://blenderartists.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50306&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=grass

Search the Blender General forum for ‘grass’ and you’ll find many more posts on the same subject

ohhhh, bummer, i though maybe there would be some sort of miraculous workaround involving an orchestra of procedurals and alpha values or something…too bad.

i guess it just takes forever to render grass.

and i guess the concensus is that nobody here cares about ‘art of illusion’ can’t blame y’all, blender OWNS!

thanks- keep postin if u have more ideas/opinions…

how do they do that?

I can tell you how…I run that forum. :slight_smile:

And yes, that is done with procedurals. And displacement doesn’t work quite the same way in AoI as it does in Blender - AoI uses a method invented by Peter Eastman:

But hey, if you wanna do it in Blender, you can. And you can also use renderman with Blender for micropolygon features (maybe Ton’s rendering improvements will allow this too):

I’ve seen a lot of really nice grass examples with renderman, and I’m sure there are more ways to do it than simple displacement, just like you can use a variety of methods in AoI.

With grass, you’re setting up the illusion of grass. No matter which method you use, if you mess up, it’ll look bad. Some remarkably primitive methods can look fantastic.

I think it has several things “on Blender,” but then Blender has some fantastic features too. We are lucky we can use both.

Edit: As of yesterday, one of the AoI developers is working on Sunflow-style AoI renderer integration for Blender. I hope that works out!

I think it has several things “on Blender,” but then Blender has some fantastic features too. We are lucky we can use both.

Just curious what you feel AOI does ‘better’ than Blender?

LetterRip

A few off the top of my head:

-Much easier displacement
-Integrated Global Illumination: Monte Carlo GI, “Hybrid” GI, Photon Mapping, Ambient Occlusion (as in Blender)
-More capable procedural texture editor
-Gloss/Translucency (blurry reflections/transparency)
-Raytraced Depth of Field
-Two methods for scattering materials (including photon mapping for SSS)
-Sidebar plugin for live rendering previews (think F-prime)

I can list what Blender has on AoI too, if ya like. I use both. :wink:

Edit: Before the “Yafray” part comes along, I should say I have used Yafray and don’t prefer it to AoI.

Ah okay,

I’m more interested in non-rendering releated possible shortcomings of Blender.

LetterRip

Non-rendering related? Hmm…

Now you’re like the Blender marketing/foreign project appraisal person or something, right? I think as far as non-rendering related possible shortcomings of Blender go, the biggest complaint I see about Blender is the learning curve. As an AoI user, I end up defending Blender’s interface a lot. If you don’t take the time to hike up Blender’s learning curve, the super-speedy interface can seem foreign and useless.

But you’ve heard that before.

Now you’re like the Blender marketing/foreign project appraisal person or something, right?

Marketing, competitive analysis, release management. and python scripts.

Learning curve issues are partly being addressed now, the rest after Orange (fully scripted tutorials, improvements to the UI, etc.)

LetterRip

okayyyy, not this is getting interesting (sorry, i havent used AOI at all - just what ive read about it - im in my first month of learning blender and itll be another 2 months before i try to learn another program)

sooooo:

I can tell you how…I run that forum.

And yes, that is done with procedurals. And displacement doesn’t work quite the same way in AoI as it does in Blender - AoI uses a method invented by Peter Eastman:

peastman wrote:
AoI doesn’t use any of those methods. It uses an algorithm of my own invention which is much faster than subdividing at render time, but uses much less memory than subdividing in advance.

But hey, if you wanna do it in Blender, you can.

your saying the grass thing CAN be done in blender - well if not with mega displacement mapping then HOWWWW!! lol, i gots ta know!!

also, yeah could u also list what u think blender has on AOI (btw does AOI have on the fly snapping? and how is it about sharing files with blender - can they share files without losing quads?) thx for all the interesting posts!

use the new particle hair,

LetterRip

thats what i’ve been using - but if i can do grass with some sorta less vert-intensive method, then i’d like the flexibility - i’d love to have a few more options if they’re out there u know?

btw does AOI have on the fly snapping? and how is it about sharing files with blender - can they share files without losing quads?

  1. What is “on the fly snapping?”

  2. I’ve talked with some AoI devs about writing a .blend importer, but after some searching in the Blender forums, the word seems to be “don’t even go there, the .blend format is insane” or something like that. So, your best bet is to use something like .obj. With the Polymesh Editor plugin for AoI, you can import with quads and then use its n-gon modeling capabilities. The PME is modeled after Wings but it also allows open-mesh modeling.

-Marc

see jorrits Blender importer for CrystalBlend,

LetterRip

thats what i’ve been using - but if i can do grass with some sorta less vert-intensive method, then i’d like the flexibility

BTW, it sounds like you’re bumping up against the computational limitations of your computer more than you’re bumping up against Blender’s limitations.

There are a variety of techniques that will get you good grass with somewhat less-astonishing memory requirements, but you really need to take that shot-by-shot. That is, if you really want help, you should post the scene or a render somewhere, and go from there. I can’t really say without looking at, e.g., the distance from which the grass will be viewed, etc.

hmmm…thats too bad about the .blend thing

on the fly snapping is a modeling errr method…i’ll just describe it:

say your drawing a mesh one point at a time, and you want one of the points to be in the same place as a point on another mesh…well with on-the-fly snapping you just move your closer near the point you want to “snap” to and it snaps to that point automatically. its a very useful modeling method.

[edit] thats fair enough about the grass thing - i just curious if i could reproduce what that guy did on the AOI forum, but using blender thats all.

So does Blender have this feature? If so, does this work between objects, or only within a mesh object?